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Next up in OPB's The Switch series, we'll be looking at ways individual conservation factors into Oregon's energy mix. After all, the most basic way to cut greenhouse gases is to use less energy. But can the light bulbs we use and the windows installed in our homes really make a difference when it comes to halting, or at least slowing, wide-scale climate change?
Bob Doppelt, author of The Power of Sustainable Thinking, says both government and individuals are responsible for promoting energy efficiency but that more emphasis is needed on effecting behavioral changes in the population at-large. He points to energy monitors, which provide real-time analysis of the energy being used in your home, as one means to train people to pay attention to their energy use. The University of Oregon's Climate Leadership Initiative, which Doppelt directs, runs a Climate Masters program, which assists people with ways to reduce emissions at home and in their daily lives.
At the governmental level, a variety of tax incentives are in place to promote energy efficiency in homes and businesses. But not everyone thinks that's a good idea. Terry Anderson, executive director of the Property and Environment Research Center in Bozeman, Montana, which advocates for free market solutions to environmental problems, says the government is "unlikely to pick the right winners. It would be much better to simply give people their money back" and let them decide how to use it.
So what's the best way to encourage decreased personal consumption? Is it the government’s responsibility? How do you conserve at home? What have been the results? What would it take for you to switch to a more energy efficient lifestyle? How far would you go to save the planet?
Guests:
- Bob Doppelt: Director of the Climate Leadership Initiative and Resource Innovations at the University of Oregon's Institute for a Sustainable Environment and author of The Power of Sustainable Thinking
- Terry Anderson: Executive Director of the Property and Environment Research Center in Bozeman, Montana
- John Zerzan: Primitivist activist and author, co-editor of Green Anarchy magazine, and host of Anarchy Radio at the University of Oregon
Tagged as: conservation · energy efficiency · the switch
Photo credit: Impala74 / Flickr / Creative Commons
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On June 19-20, 2008, the U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE) held a technical workshop on implementation of smart grid technologies, from the "Executive Summary Major Findings" - the first one was: Enable active participation by consumers.
Enabling active consumer participation in the Smart Grid was the topic of Jeff Hammarlund's PSU Smart Grid class on 20 April 2009. I presented slides to the class. I retired as the Technology Innovation Lead in Energy Efficiency at BPA last August.
Home Energy Management Systems (EMS) using broadband technology can reduce energy use (PNL GridWise study - 10% savings quoted, Maria Cantwell, US Senator - National Smart Grid conference, Spokane WA 6 April 2009), reduce peak load and potentially defer investments in transmission and distribution systems.
After my work at BPA implementing broadband demonstration projects in Ashland Oregon and the PNW GridWise, I believe that the best option for efficiency improvement is automated energy management for homes.
If the Oregon Public Utility Commission were to allow PGE/Pacificorp to put in place a program that lets them pay for half of a Home EMS (with the utility being able to reset a thermostat 50 hours a year - reducing peak load), the customer could pay for the other half and save energy using the automated energy management functions of the Home EMS.
The basis rewarding or punishing personal consumption is embedded in utility rates. Utilities currently are not rewarded for helping their customers reduce use. If the Oregon Public Utility Commission were to allow PGE/Pacificorp to put in place a program that lets them pay for half of a Home EMS (with the utility being able to reset a thermostat 50 hours a year - reducing peak load), the customer could pay for the other half and save energy using the automated energy management functions of the Home EMS.
A list of the requirements that a Home EMS would require to be economic and make both consumers and utilities happy, is posted in my next post/comment. Powermand is a local company that has a system that meets many of these requirements. I suggest you contact Dan Russell CEO (ex-Intel VP) for this story, 503 922-3280. Disclaimer: I am a founder of, and an advisor to Powermand, but I am not involved in day to day management.
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Home Energy Management System Required functionality:
Consumer friendly, easy to use interface via web browser (energy version of iPod)
Control heating ventilating and cooling (HVAC) systems as well as hot water heaters, homes and lighting via programmable communicating thermostats and load control modules
Allow users to choose between maximum comfort and minimum cost on a sliding scale
Be able to document energy efficiency savings
Provide real-time metering and sub metering data, from the utility meter or sub metering equipment
Provide HVAC continuous commissioning and diagnostics
Be easy to install by an HVAC technician and be self provisioning
Have automated the firmware and software updates over the Internet
Display carbon impacts, energy use, cost savings, utility rate plan options can do so via a PC or "in home display" (IHD)
Provide a payback of 36-60 months under utility rate recovery
Easily add and control new Smart appliances
Integrate with charging systems for plug-in hybrids or electric vehicles, for control
Respond to under and over, frequency and voltage events, with utility control of set points for voltage and frequency
Monitor power quality the end-use site
Provide ongoing building performance information, such as R factor building energy response to weather conditions
Nice to have functionality:
Read early generation automated metering systems and send back data via broadband to utility
Optional two-way broadband connection via a cellular or WiMAX for locations without broadband
Pass utility messages to Smart appliances
Control solar inverters for power firming
Ability to turn on loads when system overvoltage or frequency events occur (hot water heaters, electric vehicle's or refrigeration for example)
Multitenant option using only an in home display and remote programming via any web browser, thus eliminating the need for a PC
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It sounds like you might have some smart ideas, but I have to tell you that there is a lot of technical jargon in your statement. I feel I would need to be in an all day class in order to properly understand the validity of your ideas. Are you suggesting these are ideas that the government should implement or the power companies or both. I think these kinds of detailed decisions may be over the heads of most consumers. Is there a way to simplify the information into bite size pieces?
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Well asked, OregonSean.
Note Zaph's encapsulation of this technology above.
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Having 30 years in utilties and being an electrical engineer is a hurdle I have to work constantly at to overcome, as my wife the the attorney is constantly reminding me to make concepts simple.
Bottom line: hardware with easy to use software makes energy management easy and profitable. See www.powermand.com, www.tendrilinc.com or www.energyhub.net for examples of these system. Powermand is located in Portland.
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EnergyWebMike brings up an interesting point. I have an internet based thermostat system on my gas furnace. The natural gas company has not boarded the smart grid train yet.
However two or three things may change this:
1. A European style "Dash to Gas" to replace coal with clean natural gas may put huge burdens on supply. Wind and solar are not firm supplies and must be backed by something.
2. Inability to site new or larger transmission lines. NIMBY!
3. The insatiable appetite of California putting more pressure on the Rocky Mountain supply and Canadian Sedimentary Basin.
In the meantime I figured that I can get nearly 10% conservation savings from my new internet stat. Putting a higher dead band and longer runtime strategy will improve the waste of short cycling my furnace and the inefficiency of pre and post purge start stop. Night setback is a huge plus and if I am out of town I can just get on the net and keep it in night setback. Pretty cool.
Just seeing graphically on a dash board how I am using energy is a way to change my behavior.
We can argue about global cooling, global warming or whatever we want to call it these days, but the real issue is conservation and using what little resources we have more efficiently and wisely. The side benefit of that is less carbon, less utility bills and more resources for future generations.
Smart Grid (GAS AND ELECTRIC) makes that happen.
Conservation Chris.
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You sound pretty passionate about your ideas, but many of them were just too technical for me to understand. Any thoughts on making these ideas accessible to the masses?
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OregonSean: I will bet you have a thermostat in your home residence. And since you are responding to this message you probably have an internet service provider as well.
All I am talking about is replacing your stat with one that can communicate over the internet. How does that work? Easy, a radio on your stat allows information to flow both ways from your computer at home to the internet.
The technology has been around for years, but just recently at the residential level.
It is more expensive than a conventional thermostat available at Home Depot. So most people won't do it.
However the utilities have a need to share in this cost:
On hot summer days the electrics might have the right to bump up your set points temporarily say from 76 degrees to 80 degrees to keep peak demands down. After 20 or so minutes they can return your setpoints to 76 degrees and move on to the the next house. This reduces the need for expensive upgrades to transmission and reduces the need for expensive and inefficient peaking power.
Same for the gas company on cold winter days to maintain system pressure. With many thermostats you can build a huge portfolio to control and limit demand and maintain reliability.
You get a very easy to program thermostat that is all menu driven on your computer and the savings to boot.
So who pays?
Well the customer pays a portion and the utility puts the rest of the cost in rates. The rates are still a lot cheaper than building a new pipeline, or new peak power plant, or new transmission line.
Its called Least Cost Planning in utility speak and it works.
Hope that was not to technical. Let me know if you need further clarification.
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One of the initiatives I am launching using The Energy Framework is to enable individuals (as energy users and as purchasers) to understand true costs of each option all the way back to source.
Some choices are obvious:
• Using powered leaf-blowers, particularly on windy days, is staggeringly stupid - they should be raked and picked up as a resource.
• On even lawns use push mowers instead of powered mowers, plus get fit!Other are less clear:
• Is a car that runs on primarily 'dirty' coal generated electricity really less polluting than a petroleum fueled car. "Well-to-wheel" analysis purports that to be the case.
• Is replacement of an inefficient appliance that could run well for many more years, with a more efficient appliance justified? How does one decide?
Knowing the true 'back to source' costs of appliances, electronics, transportation, heating, lighting, cooking etc.would make for better decisions.
Many actions an individual can take involve changing methods and habits, sometimes at the loss of a convenience, but often at a gain:
• A washing line instead of the dryers (a huge energy hog) - inconvenient, difficult during rainy times, but there is nothing finer than the smell of fresh wind-blown sheets - remember your childhood?
The 3 'Rs' continue to be valuable (Reduce-Reuse-Recycle) and there are new 'Rs' with even more impact; Refuse, with it's ironic double-meaning; Why does someone purchasing a carton of milk require it to be put in a plastic bag?
Another idea is to come up with a completely new use: Pause before you dispose of anything and ask if there is another way of using it (Re-Invent)- I recently discovered that those mini sock hooks that many pairs are sold with make perfect clothes-line hooks!
Beyond the individual level, but very relevant to end-use, is the Re-Capture concept: Cars passing over a 'traffic-calming' device in the UK generates electricity - dancers in a nightclub generate electric power via capture devices in the floor, as do people exercising in a Danish gym.
With awareness and consciousness of just how precious energy actually is we can all help turn this around. -
It sounds like you have a lot of good ideas. I'm skeptical about the ones that require people to change their habits, but harnessing the energy from everyday events (dancing, exercising, speed bumps) sounds very smart if it's economical. Admittedly, my favorite ideas usually surround having studies done to look for the easiest and most efficient solutions, as well as investing carefully in technologies that will be convenient and effective.
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Last year I chose to relocate from Phoenix AZ to Portland OR. I did so mostly because I wanted to live a more sustainable lifestyle. Portland allows me to do so in a way not possible in the unstustainable urban sprawl of Phoenix.
Since moving here, I've reduced my driving by 85%. I've reduced my energy consumption dramatically. I try to buy locally produced foods when possible, and I have gotten into the habit of placing every possible appliance on a power strip and turning them off when not in use.
I'm always looking for more ways to conserve.
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I get really frustrated by what I see as the lack of perspective.
Yes I recycle, and I compost and I use the long-life bulbs. But I know it's tiny and hardly helping. And I'm afraid it instills a false sense of getting-things-done.
What does it say when whole business models are built on generating waste because waste = profit (ink cartridges) and when folks in the summer in the hot Southwest use their clothing dryers when it's 100 degrees out? I've watched an energy-efficiency 'expert' on a morning TV show - followed by an advertisement for a little thing that makes your room smell better - and YOU HAVE TO PLUG IT IN!
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This is a very good point. There is a lack of common sense in many routine human behaviors. Also, changing the way businesses work, eliminating things like planned obsolesence, and mandating energy efficiency are HUGE pieces of the solution.
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The value of energy-conserving devices over conventional ones, like flourescent vs incandescent lights, was illustrated dramatically back in the early 1990's. General Electric saw business opportunity in the new markets of eastern Europe following the collapse of the Soviet Union and proposed to build a factory there to produce incandescent light bulbs and three new coal-fired generation plants. That sounded normal enough until someone pointed out that if the new factory were producing flourescent lights instead, the three new coal-fired power plants wouldn't even be needed.
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I have been doing some small changes and a fairly large change. I have been using lfourescent lights for about 5 years. My new car has a mileage rating of 21-27 MPG. I have been driving much more economically getting between 25 and 27 mpg consistantly.
My biggest frustration is my recycling. At the apartments I am at the complex has 1 blue can. It is always full. So I find myself throwing most of my paper away.
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I'm very sorry to hear about your recycling problem. Have you spoken to your management or thought about sponsoring an additional can?
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"Terry Anderson, executive director of the Property and Environment Research Center in Bozeman, Montana, which advocates for free market solutions to environmental problems, ..."
Ha ha ha! The so called "Free Market" is what created the environmental problems that plague us currently!
And in addition the so called "Free Market" is what has crashed our world economy and brought it to a standstill!
Free Marketeers are very much like two or three year old babies who cry and throw tantrums when told that they have to learn to behave in ways that don't hurt people.
The adults, the grownups in society, negotiate, legislate, and make regulations and laws to protect people and prevent people like "Free Marketeers", from behaving badly.
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Amen! I believe that encouraging competition and innovation can be an important part of an efficient market, sometimes, but it is definitely not a one size fits all solution. Each industry needs to be carefully evaluated for the best mix of regulation and market freedom.
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I've been working toward sustainability for more than 30 years and find that doing one thing at a time until it is a natural part of my life and routine works best.
Granted, some things have gotten worse because of the way the world has changed - I used to be able to buy almost everything I need without disposable plastic. Now it is pervasive and increasingly difficult to buy some things WITHOUT plastic packaging. Still, I have always had once a month garbage collection and struggle to fill a can even then most months.
And I find that once you start down the road, your perspective changes. I have had compact flourescents for a while but right now I'm looking at my lights differently. Why am I turning them in at all if it isn't dark outside? How can I effectively daylight my house- using no generated power at all for lights during the day?
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Studies have shown that making long-term changes takes time and has to happen gradually for it to stick. I commend you for doing that. I wish there was a campaign to educate people best on how to do the same.
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Reed just mentioned that he made changes mostly to save money. My back goes up when I remember the last time we were urged to save energy. In the late 1970's we were urged to save energy and reap the benefits of lower bills. So we did, but what was the result? PGE raised rates because they were losing profits!!!
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Your point is so important. Without a little wise structuring of the rules of competition, the carrots and sticks can end up it the wrong places.
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We're trying to make the right choices in our family to reduce our impact on the environment, such as remembering to bring our reusable grocery bags and growing our own organic food. But it feels like a futile effort when, for example, the Portland Public School system puts almost 4 million Styrofoam trays into landfills each school year (and who knows how many plastic sporks) because it's more "cost effective" than washing real trays and silverware. Even the milk cartons, which we can recycle curb side in our homes, cannot be recycled at schools without being rinsed and dried for 24 hours -- try that on volunteer time! How do I sustain any energy for reducing my own individual impact when this is happening here in green Portland?
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The local socially aware fast food chain Burgerville has found a manufacturer that creates plastic looking cups, straws, and flatware from corn that are fully compostable. Wouldn't it be great if law required their use?
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Dr. Doppelt,
I appreciate your perspective and, as an aside, particularly liked the idea of "down-cycling"...
I wondering what you consider to be the "external benefits" to adopting a carbon screen and how that might play-out in local, state, and federal policy?
Thanks! Interesting discussion...only in Oregon.
Craig
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Science Friday did a show recently that mentioned that people create and use "brown fat" when it is a little bit colder, so turning down the thermostat is a good idea if you want to lose the bad kind of stable long term white fat and instead use the short term brown fat that easily provides energy for current use.
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Please define "brown and white" fat. Are you talking food now?
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Joined late, sorry if covered:
When does it make environmental sense to purchase a new vehicle? My situation: 10 year old vehicle that averages 14mpg in combined driving. Will buying a new 35 mpg vehicle reap a net environmental gain at 12,000 miles per year. Seems like keeping my vehicle may be more environmentally sound?
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We no longer use our dryer, our tv is on a power strip, so is our computer, toaster and coffee maker. They are off when not in use. We have an induction burner and a infrared toaster, heat pump, added insulation to the house and installed cfl's all over. Our electricity usage has been cut in half.
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Nice! I wish success stories like this were more publicized. Also, how long will it take you to recoup the cost of these upgrades through the savings you are now experiencing?
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CUT THE MAIN OFFENDER -- HEATING [last paragraph is most essential!]
As a new Oregon resident, I was stunned when, in my all-electric apartment, winter electric bills were triple my summer bill -- and equal to what I'd paid living in spendy Japan.
To reduce this, I focused mainly on reducing use of appliances that heat or chill. By turning on my room heating system only when I couldn't withstand the room chiill -- and cut the next bill down to one-third -- that is, from $90 to $30.
A friend realized this same reduction in more comfort by buying a Heat Surge "electric fireplace" [heatsurge.com]. The energy saved will pay back the approx $300 purchase price in a couple of seasons.
The most ingenious and elegantly simiple device I've found (too late for the past winter) is the Heat Stick [heatstick.com]. It's a fan that takes in heat from the ceiling and pumps it out at floor level, at a mere $80. But the inventor describes it fully on the site and a handy person could build one. It uses a recycled laptop-computer fan in a two-sided wood housing to fit vertically in the corner of adjacent two walls.
Eve in Beaverton
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Over the last several generations, energy has been so cheap that most people have grown accustomed to heating their whole house. This is nuts!
We cut our energy consumption for heating by more than a third, by simply "isolating" one common room with curtains, and keeping it nice and toasty. The rest of the house is not heated directly. Everyone can always be plenty warm and it tends to make for more 'family time'.
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I was recently shocked when a refrigerator quit working after only about 6 years service. I was told that it was not repairable because it was a sealed unit and that refrigerators made today are not built to last more than 6 to 10 years. Built in obselecence does not help the enviornment no matter how efficient. Ron
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In all this talk of choice, the one thing I don't hear anyone say, on this show or anywhere in government, is that the U.S. way of life is fundamentally unsustainable. Not only are we emitting too many Greenhouse Gases to hope for any kind of climate stability, but our lifestyle is also completely dependant on oil and natural gas. With Peak Oil looming in our immediate future, maybe 5 to 10 years out if you're optimistic, there is no way that the way we live can continue as is. Not only do we need to make choices based on their current impacts, but we should also consider the choices that we will have remaining to us a decade from now.
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We live in the upper "left" quarter of the country. This conversation is not new other than adding the word "Carbon" into the mix. As a contractor in the seventies we were building sunrooms and fabricating basic solar water heaters. Mother Earth news baby! Whole Earth Catalog!
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Two conservation tips from Lynn the Librarian in Junction City.
1. Library use, i.e., borrowing books, is an advanced form of recycling. A book may be checked out over 100 times before it is discarded; and think of the shelf-space you are saving, by storing volumes at your public library.
2. A home-efficiency tip: use a clothes line or clothes rack to dry your laundry. I started the practice when my dryer quit. I do not plan on having the dryer repaired.
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Awesome tip! I don't make a lot of money and I'm naturally pretty frugal and I LOVE getting DVD's from the library. I can't even imagine how much money I've saved in addition to reducing the environmental effects of producing, distributing, and selling the DVD's and books that I've checked out. Contributing to prevention of additional "big box" stores makes me feel good. Also, we have a great network of quality used clothing stores in the metro area. Save money and save the environment.
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A really smart computerized grid would have plug ins everywhere battery cars park and would tell them to charge the cars whenever the wind is blowing and powering those beautiful wind turbines. And when the car is home and plugged in, it's charged up batteries would make power available to the grid. That would make possible the timeshifting of electricity from when it is generated to when it is needed, the long sought "grid battery"!
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I have had terrible luck with the compact fluorescent bulbs. I have had many many burn out in less than 3 months. I keep buying them in the hopes that they get the bugs worked out of them. Am I just unlucky? What about the mercury? Is it released if the bulb breakes? How are they being recycled? I have a pretty big pile. I am starting to hate those things.
Modifications in space heating, on the other hand, has a big potential for saving a lot of fossil fuel use. Americans heating their whole houses, is a tradition that was born of the luxury of many generations of cheap energy. A simple screen/ curtain was all it took to transform our 1500 sq. ft. home that was never warm enough, to a home where we had one common room that was always plenty warm and cozy with very little energy use.
It might help bring familys a little closer in other ways too.
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FYI, Oregon Energy Trust offers a one hour free home energy review. I had one done yesterday at my home and found it very helpful.
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Please don't fill your tires to the maximum pressure stated on the tire sidewall, while this may save a tiny amount of fuel, it will cause your tires to wear out faster causing you to have to buy new tires sooner, which I'm sure creates a lot of carbon when they are manufactured and transported. Instead fill your tires to the manufacturer's suggested pressure and do it when your tires are cold (driven less than 1 mile in 2 hours and not having been sitting in the sun).
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I gave up driving last year and moved a few blocks from my workplace. I bought a bike. Not only have I reduced my commute to work to 5 mins, I can walk nearly everywhere I need to go. In a city like Portland, it is a shame that many people still drive as much as they do. Not so progressive, in my opinion.
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The interconnectedness of our world means that Zerzan’s anti-industrialist philosophy is not a practical response to our over-consumption. A self sustaining lifestyle is possible in pleasant climates with many resources. Unfortunately, most individuals do not live in this kind of environment. Thus, goods and resources must be transported, which requires industrialization.
The first step is to build as efficiently as possible. Proven methods exist that would allow individuals to maintain some semblance of their current lifestyle with less resources. Homes and appliances can be built better to reduce their energy loads. Conservation is important, but it won’t benefit much to turn down the thermostat if your home is leaking the energy, however small, that you do consume.
Energy Trust of Oregon offers resources for homeowners looking to reduce their energy consumption as well as builders looking to increase their professional development. Resources like this are easy things we can exploit to reduce our consumption.
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This is a good point. It may simply be easier and more economic to try and circumvent people's behavior through greater efficiency standards and through intelligent consultations about how to upgrade or maintain homes better with the least effort and cost.
I just think that it would be an uphill battle to convince the general public to changes their habits in a significant way, possibly a massive advertising campaign and maybe not even that.
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I figured that was coming, Terry Andersons last comments revealed him as one of those Conservative anti-science climate change deniers. A professional prevaricator.
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Energy Trust is a good starting place. I am in the process of becoming a trade ally. plug-Boydston Construction.
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I would've liked free market Terry to tell us what he means by "the air is getting cleaner". It's that kind of generic language that can be highly misleading. Certain aspects of the environment have improved, yes, but fossil carbon accumulation is not one of them. The science has repeatedly re-affirmed a high risk of rapid interglacial climate change, and impacts on holocene ecology and civilization. Neither Terry's approach nor Zerzan’s is reality-based or helpful at this moment in time.
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A little off topic:
I started biking to work everyday a few months ago. It took a while to dial in my commute (the rain gear, back pack, the right route, techniques for keeping my chain/derailleurs clean and working well in the wet and grit), but I save a lot of money on gas and bus fees. I also had to make adjustments to things like dry cleaning schedule, and learn how to pack work clothes to avoid wrinkling. But I've lost 15 pounds and I'm astonishingly more fit over the hills. I get to work faster, and my whole life is better.
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My two cents 1 of 2
- -Appliance Life Cycle- Energy Star says 5 years is old enough to consider a cost effective change although I am unsure whether or not life cycle costing was calculated.
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-Bob- Thanks for your work totally agree with the fact that educating people is a key element and it needs to happen in a fashion which is both positive and empowering yet real enough to bring attention to the fact the by saving every energy you do indeed save everything-including money
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-John- Individual involvement is KEY to addressing climate change. Not in a CO2 reduction capacity but by Bob's sustainable thinking paradigm. It took generations for us to adopt our current way of thinking and that was enforced by bombarding the public with media overexposure. It will take similar tactics and just as much time for us to repair the thinking which caused the problem. This thought adoption process can be artificially accelerated with a monumental project. I would like to propose that project is to transform the Portland/metro region into the worlds first FULLY sustainable city in the next seven years as a profitable example of how America can prosper as leaders of the fossil free world.
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-John- I totally disagree that to be in balance with the planet we have all become cave dwellers. Sustainable frameworks like the Natural Step, LEED, and the Living Building Challenge provide us through the mainstream adoption of the sustainable industry, the framework in which to build an eco-industrialized society, and it is all a matter of scale. Ever hear of micro industry?
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I agree. It is a false choice that we either need to continue destroying the planet or revert back to the bronze age. Careful use of science and technology (including the behavioral sciences) can give us a win-win situation with a reasonable investment.
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- My Two Cents 2 of 2
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-Background- AA in natural resource management in 98 started a sustainable construction company in 2005 www.solutions21st.com; founded a sustainable educational public access TV program www.sustainabletoday.org in 06; I founded a clean tech research and development firm in 08 www.rjsholdingsinc.com; and this year founded a sustainable educational nonprofit www.arkpdx.org
robert@arkpdx.org 503 875 5590
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We need a New Way of Thinking About Energy
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-NO NEW TRANSMISSION LINES- Just like energy conservation is the most cost effective because it is energy we do not use, onsite generation of clean renewable energy is the most cost effective because it is the energy we do not send. The technologies exist through a hybrid combination of technologies to build the smart energy grid of the future from clusters of small community centered clean power plants. Imagine how far we could go if we spent all the money they want to spend on new transmission lines on turning our homes, our business, our schools, our government buildings, and even our bridges and highways into clean power plants. Sure we will need transmission lines both those should only be developed after the urban on site potential is maximized.
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-The facts of the matter on vertical axis wind technologies- The first question that might pop up in regards to new transmission is wind farms. Millions have already been spent to develop these remote locations for their clean power but in my humble opinion they where built with the same mind frame of “bigger is always better” that caused the problem which we know does not work. We need a “small is beautiful” frame of mind when envisioning the power grid of the future. The key element is the vertical axis wind technologies. Canadian studies show there is a power source in urban winds and where their big cousins work well on the farm, these machines are designed to augment solar and do so quite well in the urban environment. The technology has developed to the point beyond these being just pretty things to practical investments. In the coming weeks I will make this case in a much more real fashion
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Distributed small generation can be an answer, based on cost and energy produced. Do you have one of these devices installed at your location?
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Local, distributed energy is a great idea, but until it is ready for prime time (politically, economically, and technologically) we will need to add some transmission lines in the meantime.
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There are 22 companies around the world manufacturing vertical axis wind turbine. We will be testing one particulatr type here in Portland this summer. More details will be made available as soon as it ironed out.
The costs of turning a typical portland home into a clean power plant is around $100K (estimated for conservation onsite energy, food and water production). Currently the closest program available is Umpqua Banks Green Street Lending program, though the state offers a SELP loan and there are other programs but nothing stamped for "living buildings" which is how this clean power pants would be individually classified.
Cost effectiveness depends on what costs your including. Unfortunately today many financial institutions do not recognize true costs in their loan calculations. The aforementioned are exemptions to the best of my knowledge.
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That price tag makes me faint. Is it possible we need to wait for the technology to become cheaper or could goverment subsidization be the answer?
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I wasn't able to listen to this entire show, but I didn't hear any discussion about the true root cause of the global environmental problem: over-population.
Now, I don't advocate any practice of forcibly reducing population, nor would I approve of legal limits on how many children anyone can have, but I would like to see a shift in public opinion so that the practice of having large families is openly regarded as irresponsible behavior. Just as it is important that we all improve our awareness of our carbon footprints, I think it is even more important to be aware of the true root of the problem. Conservation, renewable energy, and all the "green" technologies that are being discussed are good and necessary short- and medium-range strategies, they will not be effective in the long term unless over-population is addressed.
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This is a very good point and I have some good news. Anecdotally, many countries in western Europe are experiencing population decreases, naturally, without government intervention. I believe the theory goes that when people have a good quality of life and receive a quality education that they are able to make better choices about whether to have children, how long to wait, and how many to have. Having a higher quality of life doesn't put as much pressure on our natural instincts to procreate in order for the next generation to have it better than we do.
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I'd like to get answers on why LCD and Plasma TVs have been getting a free ride on energy issues. These TVs use quite a bit more energy to run than CRT TVs, and they use mercury-based lighting to illuminate the screen. Yet CRTs are fading away because of size issues.
I, for one, applaud California's attempts to at least stem the tide of this excess.
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Interesting. I'd like to know more about this.
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Most people don't understand the true costs associated with carbon and/or energy reduction. There are so many externalities beyond the obvious. If you tax carbon emissions without a cap, the extra $$ cost itself produces more carbon emissions. If you pay $15000 more for a Prius versus a Honda Civic, that $15000 produces more carbon over the lifetime of the vehicle so you would be better off buying the Civic.
Another example are schools that switch to compact flourescent bulbs. A portion of the energy savings is lost because the compact flourescents give off less heat and the heating bill increases.
People who think we can solve this problem through taxes, or changing our lifestyle by purchasing more expensive low carbon products are not seeing the big picture.
Even walking over driving has a carbon effect because you are burning more calories and thus need to eat more which produces extra carbon.
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I'm sorry to contradict you, because I believe your heart is in the right place, but many of your points simply faulty.
A Prius does not cost $15K more than a Civic. In the context of a carbon tax, the cost of a Civic would increase, narrowing the gap with the cost of a Prius.
Having light bulbs generate heat at the ceiling of a room is not an efficient way of heating it, forget the summertime when no heat is desired.
The amount of carbon a person produces through metabolizing food is negligible compared to what is generated by any internal combustion engine, even a lawn mower. Studies have shown that people who exercise more actually tend to eat less food.
I've found that avoiding the feeling of being victimized by the system is helpful in focusing on the facts as they are and practical solutions.
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An interesting mix of guests on the show, and well managed as usual, nothing confrontation for the sake of being so; rather taking their opinions seriously and asking about them intelligently. You have a quality programme.
Two reactions after listening to the show:
1. Pr. Doppelt wasn't able to actually answer my example of a less than clear-cut consumer question (which I appreciate you putting to him: how can anyone work out when an inefficient working appliance is worth replacing with an efficient one?). Of course not, it's a moving target, but we can do better than blanket industry/govt statements like "replace xxx every n years". I envisage coursework in Universities providing the ongoing effort and a public service reference point via online-libraray service.
2. The exchange between Mr. Anderson and Mr. Zerzan exposed two near polarisations of perspective. Mr. Anderson's contention that everything is getting better was correct within a narrowed context - i.e. Fridges are less polluting now, etc.. While Mr. Zerzan's contention that all industrialization and the system we live under needs to go away is startling, yet not an illogical conclusion to several overwhelming questions. The biosphere perspectives seem valid, still there are many great minds at work to see what can be done. I have a book written 25 years ago edited by Norman Myers when Ozone depletion was seen much as carbon emmissions are today.
On the global economic front, people feeling overwhelmed might want to follow posts at http://nevermisspens.wordpress.com/. where in 4 parts I attempt to distill many views on what the situation is, the politics of it and what might happen. I remain optimistic, but as all contributers will agree it requires intelligent, realistic and calm dialogue.PS: Erik Golts (webmeister) it would increase listenership to have an imbedded podcast at the head of the page once the program has broadcasted.
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imbedded??! broadcasted? Time to get off the keyboardzzzzzzz
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Zaph - usually the show's mp3 becomes available an hour or so after the show, in just the place you described - it was just a bit slower than usual for this one. You can also follow our podcast at:
http://www.opb.org/thinkoutloud/feeds/shows-with-audio
Thanks for listening/posting!
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So is it really helpful? If we think about every person who lives on earth to my mind it won't be useful. We need to have something like a frame and then try to implement something new. For example sash windows won't be useful without any windows at all))
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Comments are now closed.
My electric bill is around $20/month. I use one CFC bulb for my main desk lamp; the light I use 80% of the time. I'm not going to throw away my pile of incadescents because they last years even though they're not as efficient. But then incadescents don't have mercury like CFCs do.
But let me not kid myself. I'm going to have to cut a lot more to "help the planet".
Insulation, better windows and using less energy is good given the earth's burgeoning population, but I doubt whether we will positively affect global warming without more extensive and concerted effort from corporations, governments and individuals.
For example, I'd prefer to reduce commercial aviation to one quarter the flights and planes there are today. This will rearrange our economy but we need to do what needs to be done.
Why aren't we telecommuting and teleconferencing more? We need to get out of our cars and give up flying to work.
It's hard for us to decrease our consumption because we take resources for granted. China pollutes the U.S. because we buy products from China we refused to make ourselves. We didn't want pollution in our back yard so we outsourced pollution to China. That didn't work out so well, did it?
We abrogated our responsibility to protect the Chinese by rationalizing that "marketplace forces" would make everything all right.
The government can not legislate personal responsibility. Each of us has to step up and alter our negative ways.
I wear a virtual necklace, a virtual string tied around my finger which reminds me to reduce, reuse, recycle, and never use in the first place. I'd better make wise choices now before someone else chooses for me.