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Last month, a student at Clark Community College in Washington distributed controversial fliers proclaiming "white pride." Later he wore a uniform with a swastika to a meeting where he read the flier out loud and other students expressed their views on race, fear, and freedom of speech.
Some students say the administration should do more prevent what they consider hate speech. The administration says there's nothing it can do. This type of incident has happened other places in different incarnations. Where is the line between hate speech and free speech, particularly on college campuses?
Have you experienced any incident like this? What was your response?
GUESTS:
- Howard Buck: Staff writer for The Columbian
- Bob Williamson: Vice president of adminstrative services
- Reese Rolison: Clark College sophomore and public relations officer for the Queer Penguins and Allies club
- David Fidanque: Executive director of the ACLU of Oregon
Tagged as: race
Photo credit: Mark Wathieu / Creative Commons
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I agree that controversial speech should be protected. I searched this article and links but was not able to find a COPY OF THE "RACIST" FLIERS. Appearently the second flier was full of statistics showing the differences between the accomplishments of the various races >. i think such information would be helpful to this discussion. It is typical of the politically correct crowd to pass judgement without providing facts. ANYBODY GOT A LINK TO THESE FLIERS AND DARE TO POST THEM???
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ALL taxpayers in Washington are forced to pay for the Clark Community College's campus, it's a public venue, and everyone should have an equal right to speak on that campus. Colleges and universities should champion free speech - not oppose it.
Expressing dislike or criticism of the gender, race or lifestyle of others is NOT a violation of their civil rights. It IS however rude, uncoth and ignorant. An appropriate response in an academic environment would be - extra credit, two pages, type written, compare and contrast: "white pride", "black power", and "gay pride." It's due on by Friday.
Onward and downward!
"War is Peace,"
"Tolerance is Censorship"
"Diversity is the Removal of Wrong Attitudes."
Oldspeak: tolerance - means being broadminded. It means acknowledging the legal right of others to a dissenting opinion, religious belief or peaceful lifestyle such as homosexuality.
Newspeak: tolerance - requires the suppression of the speech, views or peaceful behavior that make diverse others uncomfortable. Requires that you personally accept what you tolerate by law or policy. The code words are "celebrate diversity". This celebration requires putting up, shutting up, or being locked up. You no longer have a right to a dissenting opinion.
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As a Clark College almuni, I was shocked when I heard the news of hate speech being spread around the campus. Especially due to the fact that I often worked with the office of multicultural affairs to help fight AGAINST hate speech and intolerance.
However, I am also a firm believer in the first ammendment and by not allowing the student to speak on his behave would be disrespecting the rights guaranteed to him by our constitution.
As far as the school's action, I think it was more than appropriate. They had many faculty members in psychology, sociology and history explain the consequences of hate, in addition to letting the student speak on his behalf.
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I know that there are people who do not love their fellow man, and I hate people like that! -- Tom Lehrer
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I realize that this is slightly off-topic, but it reminds me of something that my grandfather used to say: "There are two kinds of people: those who divide people into groups, and those who don't." (He also said "there are three kinds of people -- them that can count and them that can't!" Granddad was a funny fellow.)
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What a fun grandfather.
Tom Lehrer was a funny songwriter back in the 1950s and 60s. He made fun of government and such stuff. I heard recently that he was also a PhD in something like physics or math.
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White pride?
Somebody ought to point out to Conservatives like that fellow, that since all humans are descended from the African "Lucy", we are all "Black Inside", our guts, our bones, our blood, our sinews, our brains, everything inside our skin is Black.
There is only a very thin exterior of our skin that is pigmented to varying degrees that gives rise to some folks thinking that pigment or lack thereof makes them better or worse that others.
White Pride is Black Inside!
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That we all are one race, the human race, is such a specious arguement. It ignores the recent evolution and differentiation of homosapiens caused by extremely different climates/environments over the past 100,000 years. The negroid is the only "race" that evolved in a subtropical climate (where the living was easy). Skin pigmentation is just but one the differences that evolved, the negroid is also a better long distance runner and has on average a 7% smaller brain cavity. It isnt just skin color .. i wish some of you supposedly intellectual libs would try to think outside your politcally correct box.
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@VITALPAC
Since I posted this twice on a previous discussion and you didn't respond. I thought I would give you one more chance:
Considering your positions, if you were loan officers at a bank and a black farmer came in for a loan, would you treat them differently than a white farmer?
And if you wouldn't, how long do you think it would take the average loan officer that is not as mature as you to start using race as a way to put down someone that dosen't look like them?
No, there are good reasons for not giving license to peoples most selfish social impulses, i.e., putting other people down. I have no problem defending this basic goal of 'political correctness'. It is aimed at the bullies, and it is the bullies that scream the loudest. -
LOL DIRTGUY .. U MAKE NO SENSE >. no offense . if i were a loan officer i would consider colllateral and ability to repay >>. and doing such we would not have had such an economic collapes of the financial system brought on by the UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES of lib do gooder loans to people(miniorities) who couldnt pay them back >>. sorry if calling a spade a spade offends ur delicate sensibilities
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@VITALPAC
Read the questions more carefully. You are generalizing a whole group of people based on the color of their skin. I am concern about the justice done to individuals in that group. The first question posed assumes that - everything else being equal i.e., colateral, ability to pay etc.. - would you treat them differently? Yes or No?
If No, go to the second question.
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I am nearby in Oregon (Mt. Hood Community College), and I have a good deal of experience in this area--as the resident free speech guy. I was charged with insubordination and harassment for violating an unconstitutional email policy (I won), and I have challenged faculty at Mt. Hood Community College to do more than provide lip service for the "marketplace of ideas."
See this link
http://www.truthtellers.org/campus/shakcamstory.html
for some evidence of my noble shenanigans.
My email is chris.jackson@mhcc.edu and my phone number is 541.399.6925
Chris
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As a current Clark student and the previous student body President, I am extremely disappointed in the administrations reaction to these messages that we so politely call "questionable." There have been at LEAST three flyers seen by students, each one targeting a different minority with harshly inaccurate stereotypes and a website full of hate. This specific student producing the flyers obviously has rights protecting his opinions, but we also have rights and opinions worth asserting as a community. The administration has done nothing even close to asserting a stance. My once high respect for this institution is rapidly dwindling as I see Clark leaders, time after time disrespect the students that are being directly affected by the flyers, with responses like "just ignore it," "just don't let it get to you." When a student is expressing fears of emotional and physical safety it is completely outrageous to tell them how to feel then brush them off like they don't know what they are talking about. Most of Clark's leaders are white males that have never experienced the kind of hate this organization delivers, how could they possibly understand what the students are feeling? This is a major issue in lack of empathy and respect, students need leadership that understands them and respects them. Students need to be shown they are actively being supported, and not just through an email or pre-planned forum. How does the Clark Administration plan to show students they will receive that?
Sincerely, Ashley
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This is what your typical head full of mush, trained up by the NEA and NPR, liberal, Clark college student says about the reaction of the administration to some fliers pointing out racial diversity (differences).
" They need to quit hiding behind the First Amendment," said Vannak Kong, a second-year student at Clark College.
In other words >. Kong is beating his/ her chest in indignation that someone would be so insensitive to be proud of what members of a certain race have accomplished>. and wants the AUTHORITIES to suppress such politically incorrect information.
GOD BLESS HIS/HER DO GOODER LITTLE HEART!!!!
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I am a Clark College Student, and I am absolutely frightened of these people. I've encountered people from various parts of the south where I'm from, that share these ideals as the people that are responsible for those fliers. I came up here to get away from people like these, only to see that they are trying to spread their idealisms and hate up here now.
I saw that nothing was to be done, no research was put into these fliers as they were just seemingly put out without much consideration. How can we feel safe? How can we be sure that these people aren't going to do something rash?
I've endured beatings and verbal abuse by people like this. it's not fair. I thought I came to a safe place. apparently, I was wrong. However, I want to help make this campus a safe place. It's ultimately the administration that establishes and enforces safety of all diversity, But it will be up to we, the students, to let these people know that this is not okay. The administration must have our backs, though. Without their support, the meaning of diversity to Clark College may as well mean nothing.
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Oregon had a big history of the Ku Klux Klan running things, so I am afraid that you were mistaken in believing that this area was safe from such people.
There are an awful lot of decent people in the PNW but there are also quite a few Conservative Republicans like this too.
So don't make assumptions, make sure you cover your butt.
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lol @ cover ur butt >. that was gay
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Sure would be nice to have a link to what the fliers said >>>hard to know how "hateful" they are if we cant read them.
But I think we can all agree that extolling the accomplishments of white people is boorish.
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Boorish indeed. The fliers are public--do some research... Your handing humanity a card tonight. Ace of Spades--have you seen one? Ignorance is not the way.
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All colleges now have not just a BLACK STUDIES or HISPANIC STUDIES class or two .. but a whole departments. Having a WHITE STUDIES department on the other hand would be RACIST.
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The White studies department is called the History department. Most education in the West has been taught from the white European perspective so there is no need for a White studies department. The reason there is a Black, or Hispanic studies departments is simply due to the fact that aspect of history and society has so long been underrepresented, or even silenced so there is a need to balance the differing views and interpritations of different segments of society.
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"Whole Departments" that is, and to your shock, surprisingly, the longest reigning Departments are those in the White canon--mostly old curmudgeons--with a few Woolf's and Wilde's tossed in.
If you have a point, which I believe you are trying hard to form, read the entire scope of the issue, at least the available evidence, and then come back with something that evidences your claim for?
It's okay. Be you, but remember how this feels...
Thank you.
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And here is a poem I love, that I hope you enjoy:
The Dance by Siamanto (1878-1915)
And as her tears drowned in her blue eyes,
On a field of ash where Armenian life was still dying,
This is what the witness of our horror, the German woman narrated:"This story which I tell you and which cannot be told,
I saw with my cruel human eyes,
From the window of my safe house which looked on hell,
Crushing my teeth from my terrible rage...
With my cruelly human eyes I saw .
It was in Garden city, which was turned to a pile of ashes.
The corpses were piled high to the top of the trees,
And from the waters, from the fountains, from the streams, from the roads,
The rebellious murmur of your blood...
Still speaks now its vengeance into my ears...O, don't be shocked when I tell you this story which cannot be told...
Let men understand the crime of man against man,
Under the sun of two days, on the road to the cemetery
The evil of man against man,
Let all the hearts of the world know...
That morning in death's shadow was a Sunday,
The first and helpless Sunday which rose over the corpses,
When inside my room, from evening to dawn,
Bending over the agony of a girl slashed with a sword,
I was wetting her death with my tears...
Suddenly from afar a black, beastly mob
Brutally whipping the twenty brides who were with them,
Stood in a vineyard singing songs of debauchery.Leaving the poor dying girl on her mattress,
I approached the balcony of my window which looked on hell...
In the vineyard the black mob became a forest.
A savage roared to the brides: "You must dance,
You must dance when our drum sounds."
And the whips started wildly cracking on the bodies
Of the Armenian women who were missing death...
Twenty brides, hand in hand, started their round dance...
The tears flowed from their eyes like wounds,
Ah, how much I envied my wounded neighbor,
Because I heard, that with a peaceful moan,
Cursing the universe, the poor beautiful Armenian girl,
To her young dove spirit gave wings toward the stars...
In vain I moved my fists against the mob.
"You must dance", roared the furious crowd,
"You must dance until your death, lustfully and lasciviously,
Our eyes are thirsty for your movements and your death..."The twenty beautiful brides fell to the ground exhausted...
"Stand up", they shrieked, waving their naked swords like snakes...
Then someone brought to the mob a barrel of oil...
O, human justice, let me spit at your forehead...!
They anointed the twenty brides hastily with that liquid... -
"The Dance" continued:
"You must dance", they roared, "here is a perfume for you which even Arabia does not have..."
Then they ignited the naked bodies of the brides with a torch,
And the charcoaled corpses rolled from dance to death...In my terror I closed the shutters of my window like a storm,
And approaching my lonely dead girl I asked:
"How can I dig my eyes out, how can I dig them out, tell me...?" -
"You say you'll change the constitution
We'd all love to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead"--Beatles, Revolution, Lennon and McCartney
The basis for any fair and just society is TOLERANCE. The mark of a learned mind is the ability to hear a dissenting viewpoint and not grow angry or violent.
The Opposite of Tolerance is NAZISM. Militant, violent threats to opposing dissent. We even have such persons even on this forum.
One can be a highly evolved, INTELLECTUAL, AGNOSTIC ECO-ULTRA LIBERAL and still harbor militant, intolerant NAZISM tendencies. Only they do not use the Swasticka and Browns, instead the 'Earth Day' Earth and the Greens.
"But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you'll have to wait"Calling for hurtling rocks through the plate glass windows of Starbucks; hanging and decapitation of the heads of major corporations; disembowelment, drawn and quartering Priests or ANY violent means to revolution is NAZISM.
Calling Catholic Priest brainwashers is Nazism. 90% of the world are religious, and we have to recognize, acknowledge and respect their faith.
90% of all commerce relates to big and small corporations. Every product in your home, everything you touch from the shirt on your back to the oatmeal in your gullet are the fruits of a business and is based on corporate laws and protection. Welcome to the market and capitalism.
The price of Democracy is eternal vigilance. Tolerance is the basis of Society. Recognize Nazism even if it comes from the Right or Left; from the Liberal or Conservative; from Universities or the Pulpit; from the Green EcoActivists or Global Deniers; and from Fox or NPR. You can be an Irrational Extremist even from the militant separatist wing of the PTA.
Nazism was defeated in the last century, but like any true villain it will again raise its ugly head.
Painting Christians as Brainwashed Zoombies. Painting Republicans as a Malignant Cancer. Painting Monsanto as a Plague on Crops. Painting Fox News as a Demonic Channeling from Satan.
We do not have to look far; read the posts on this blog. Make people accountable to their violent postings. NO TOLERANCE FOR INTOLERANCE.
And be Good to Each Other. "Don't you know know it's gonna be alright. Alright!" PEACE.
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If I understand you correctly (which I might not be), this seems to be exactly the thing we don’t need to do: see any and every group as one and the same. This idea that the PTA is exactly the same kind of group as Catholics is much of the problem we face. We need to evaluate what people believe and say rather then what group they belong to. We can’t see all groups as equal merely because they are groups, this is a similar type of problem to seeing corporations as individuals. Not tolerating a certain religion or group because they have a hateful or bigoted ideology is not being intolerant. The effects of extremism depend entirely on the scope or capacity of the belief, all extremism is most definitely not the same in its potential. If I believe Dora the Explorer is a modern day saint, and worship her, and preach about her, this extremism is a lot different from believing black people are superior and should be in control of the world. It is not enough to say the behaviour is extreme, we have to look at where these things lead, and how they impact others, or whether their nature is inherently intolerant of others.
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We have Nazis and Nutsies.
Soup Nazi's, Eco Terrorist Nazi's and even Shoe Nazi's.
For self preservation avoid all extremes and extremists. Shun militancy and guns and explosives.
I say all organizations are cool, as long as they are NONVIOLENT, DON'T ENDORSE OR CONDONE VIOLENCE and are TOLERANT.
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lol @ no tolerance for intolerance .. liblogic
libs dont believe in the free exchange of ideas >>.they are the first to scream RACIST >>. well wise up libs .. there is such a thing as race and racial differences and a open discussions of these differences is acceptable discussion . even if the conclusions may offend a group that votes 95% democrat
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VITALPAC,
Most liberals believe in the free exchange of ideas, we just prefer that they are good, logical ideas. I am not against thinking about whether different ethnic groups might have inherent differences. I realize people shy away from this because they rush to assume it is racism, and indeed, perhaps most often these inquires are motivated by racism. But the inquiry itself is a fair line of questioning, the problems stem from motivation and what you intend to do with the information. Odds are against you, that this information is being sought to do good and that people will not take this information to reinforce their beliefs or stereotypes. Really it is not the potential information that is the problem, it is our capacity to act responsibly with it.
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Jacob,
We seem to interpret tolerance in a broad way. And to me, most religions are intolerant. An extremist is not a negative thing, unless the goal is negative. We label people extremists when we don’t like what they are being ‘extreme’ about. Probably many of the world’s greatest geniuses were extremists, because they were so focused in one area.
My point (hopefully) with all this, is that it is simple to say that we should tolerate everyone (even with a disclaimer that excludes the intolerant), but at some point, and it is a difficult point, we have to decide and determine who is intolerant and who is an extremist (in a negative way). Collectively we haven’t done this, we haven’t even begun to approach how to do it, we probably don’t even have the language and the words to do it. Or, maybe some think we shouldn’t do it at all? I think it is a complex challenge and one of the most important challenges that face our entire world. It would be great to do a show about this topic, because so much of these discussions have this tolerant/intolerant dilemma at their root. We see the dilemma all over, the Islamic cultural center by ground zero, the burqa question in France and now at Clark Community College. Yes, we all bandy about ‘free speech,’ myself included, but that is too easy!
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I am a Clark College student. This is a problem because it is allowed to be one.
The reason why you haven't seen the flier is because the college took down every copy and seems to have been doing all they can to make sure no one else sees it. The reason it was taken down was because it did not go through the ASCC flier approval process. No doubt due to the distributor believed it would not be allowed. The website the flier mentioned was http://www.nsm88.org/
Making any kind of hay about this is just what the people that spread this manure want. Now, their website is all over the news, the man responsible had his picture in the paper, and there are people openly proclaiming they are scared. Scared of what? If you are afraid, they have won!
The only thing to be truly scared of is that the college has taken away your right to self defense if attacked with deadly force. Call security? Why, so they can take pictures of the aftermath? When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Neo-Nazi groups have a record of attacking people they see as enemies, and they believe they are in the right because they are convinced it is self defense. The man that spread the flier had the gall to say the NSM was about love, not hate. Truly, we are not anywhere near that stupid.
It is up to the students of the college, not President Knight and others that will still have a job tomorrow and the next day, to make this kind of hate unwelcome in our community. The students of the college must be brave enough to say what they want at their school, and to show these evil people that their propaganda is not welcome at the college. Le them put their mindless drivel up on a flier. I for one would love the opportunity to laugh at it's contents, and deride the scapegoating for one small group's failures blamed on everything but themselves.
If you always wait for the leaders to do something to make you feel secure and safe, you are waiting to be very dissapointed. The power to stand against evil is in you, you cannot get it from the executives in the school administration, the diversity committee, or anyone else.
https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nsm88.org%2F&ei=RMrgTKHsH4jQsAPBzcSzCg&usg=AFQjCNF8Cwe1N_hvLRT5QrFN1cuTDJtDeA&sig2=h4QlFj6jnAjen2u8rtJrwQ -
And no one should be afraid to attend or visit Clark College. It is one of the safest places in SW WA. I know that there are many that will not allow someone to be assaulted and just ignore it. Clark College is a safe place because of it's students, not because of teh administration or it's policies.
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i believe a second flier was distributed that did comply with the "rules"<, ASCC flier approval process >> somehow u failed to mention this .......+ if u feel afraid >. get a concealed weapon permit and carry a gun >,. or carry mace >. or exclude anyone who doesnt agree with ur political correctness from campus
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First, I am trying to figure out what ‘hate speech’ even is. What do people mean by this term? From what I have read about hate speech, religion is one of the groups generally protected. Which is problematic, if they got rid of the religious category from hate speech, I might feel more sympathetic to the term. But how can you protect an ideology, and then allow people practicing this ideology to foster their own kind of hatred. Plus it is a contradiction, because almost all religions technically hate each other, even if they pretend not to, the logical conclusions of their beliefs are that some god or other is going to save them and destroy everyone else---this is definitely hateful. How can you protect an ideology, without advocating that ideology? You either protect all ideologies or you don’t protect any. People repeatedly make an egregious mistake with religions protections. They have elevated religion to something like eye-color and many of us swallow this pill. Religion having any special protection, in any law whatsoever, is obscene and nonsensical.
Putting it another way, it is one thing to say I hate white people, and a completely different thing to say I hate vegetarians. It is totally legitimate to hate vegetarians, because you could potentially defend your view with an opposing ideology. But you cannot defend a view of hatred against a group based upon an inherent characteristic which cannot be modified, and wasn’t a personal choice to begin with, like skin-color or gender. If hate speech protections were reserved strictly for groups that are organized by biological characteristics it might make more sense, but when you include ideological considerations, the protections lose logical credibility.
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It is totally legit to hate vegetarians. LOL
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You ought to clear up the fact that the Nazi party was anti-socialist and in fact was taken over and corrupted by Hitler and his German Conservatives. And American Conservatives like Henry Ford, Ayn Rand, and Charles Lindbergh, supported them. In addition the Bush Family supported and financed them.
The Nazis were very anti-Socialist. Don't be fooled by the name.
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This man is a member of the neo-nazi party. How anyone, in their right mind, can defend him or his organization is beyond me.
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would u say the same thing about someone who is a member of the neocommunist party??
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Your guests have repeatedly used the word "offended" to describe the adverse consequences experienced by students as a result of hate flyers. The word "offended" trivializes the effects of racist hate speech on members of targeted groups. I am white, and there is no poster that anyone could post that would make me feel unwelcome at my university as a white person -- a poster claiming that white people were inferior to other groups would not have any the machinery of systemic racism supporting it.
Colleges should make such speech unacceptable in public spaces because it interferes with many students' ability to learn, in the same way that an outsider playing the trombone right outside the door during lectures would interfere with that ability. If Clark College can ban "X-rated" speech, as one of your guests stated they do, they can ban speech that asserts the inferiority of a particular racial or cultural group -- which is likely to do far more harm to students' ability to learn than a picture of a naked man.
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Colleges should make such speech unacceptable in public spaces because it interferes with many students' ability to learn, in the same way that an outsider playing the trombone right outside the door during lectures would interfere with that ability
OH MY GOD .. did i just read that? if u cant see the libidiocy of the above post >. well all can say is is >. NICE JOB NEA
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These fliers most definitely should be allowed, not only for the obvious reason: free speech, but also for their educational value.
I would rather have people with differing opinions/views than mine operate above ground, so I know that they are out there.
I am then gaining knowledge. A college is, after all, an EDUCATIONAL institution.
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HOW EQUALITARIAN OF YOU>>. but allowing politically incorrect speech is very dangerous to those who want to control society >. google RICHARD LYNN . read all about racial differences>. if you want to LEARN something
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At Lewis & Clark College we have been dealing with a related but slightly different case. A Chicano student posted an anonymous poster that was meant as a critique a Hawaii club poster featuring what he thought was a racist caricature of a Maori warrior. The Chicano student's poster used a black face image to draw attention to what he perceived was the racism of the other poster.
Several people on campus were offended by the second poster, and when the student came forward to the administration, he was charged and found guilty of hate speech, harassment and disorderly conduct. The hate speech charge was dropped by the President when she found no evidence of racist "intent". And finally, six months later, as a result of pressure from faculty, his record was expunged.
In response to the expunging of his record, an African American student put up posters with an anti-semitic image on it, along with swastikas, and text that critiqued what he felt is the too liberal free speech policy at the school.
What these incidents show is that it is not always clear what is and is not racist. The use of racist images to assert anti-racist messages has a long and distinguished history. Nonetheless, the images hurt and offended people on campus even though they were misinterpreted. It is difficult for any policy to adequately address the complexities of interpreting images and speech. Hopefully these incidents become moments to have broader discussions about the real underlying problems of institutional racism in our society.
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sometimes >>>. THE TRUTH HURTS
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If “White Power” is racist, it follows that all of the race differentiating “Power” dogmas are racist and thus can not be tolerated!
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I am listening online in Ohio, and I am compelled to comment by my curiosity. certainly understand the desire to not only respect freedom of speech, but also to respect the members of any community. To this effect, I greatly desire to see a copy of this flyer. I feel that no one has adequately described the contents, aside from the title. While individuals like Nathan claim he did not slander anyone, instead he says he was celebrating his heritage. Conversely, the representative of the Gay Penguins obviously perceived a threat. I want to read this flyer for myself. Is this possible?
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I saw a copy of the first flier in a .pdf, but was denied a copy for myself. I do not know why. The flier glorified moments and discoveries from history, and made the point that these things were not done by anyone else, and had a clear overtone that they could not have been done by anyone other than white men. Frankly it was quite childish. It was more ridiculous than offensive, until I went to the web address on the flier. Everything you need to know about the NSM was right there.
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The first flyer sounds like a non-event that was blown out of proportion. The second sounds offensive, but threatening...? Honestly, I would feel more threatened by cencorship on campus than about a few offensive flyers. The website sounds like it crosses the line, and likely violates the policies of their ISP, but remove the URL from the flyers and this is more about offense than threat.
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The guy was a jerk plain and simple. His flyers should just be taken down and he should be told not to do it again. And then lets all ignore him (maybe have security keep an eye on him). We all know that “White Pride”, “White Power” and the swastika are now associated with racism and hatred whatever the original meaning of the words or symbols. Language changes over time and certain words are given power. He can say whatever he likes about his intentions, but he used words and symbols designed to get a reaction from others. We are all (myself included) aiding in his quest for attention. Stop interviewing him and talking about him. Let him fade into obscurity where troglodytes like him belong.
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We recently had an incident like this at Linn-Benton Community College in Albany, Oregon. In response to a workshop the school's Diversity Achievement Center was holding about growing up gay, a student posted vulgar posters of a nature that I am not inclined to repeat. They were immediately taken down, but the incident has sparked a lot of discussion at our school. Where do people's rights lie? The posters at our school were malicious and untrue. Had they been factual but obscene to some, should they be left up? Obviously you can't make everyone happy. It's hard to draw the line.
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When one is young, aging or old, still engaged in the processes of learning or not very well educated or does read in depth or can't read or write and has little or no self esteem compounded by not having job, then that person is influenced by a lot of false truths and will gravitate to those that will make him or her feel good, perhaps will allow him or her to wear some sort of military type uniform that will also provide a presence him or her is looking for. A caller made certain statements about white & black crime yet that individual must live in a blank void. It was not some black, latino or asian who caused the banking, auto and mortgage failures in the United States; apparently certain white crimes are exempt from the callers crime list. Nor was World War II started by a black or latino person, but when one does not read and is raised in an environment of racism, it is almost impossible to explain to that person or group they are wrong. Racism starts, for the most part, at an early age in the home, like religion, it becomes hard wired and it is impossible to change a persons mind on these topics. If people in the U.S. had jobs, or have a better forecast for their future, perhaps people would reframe from using negative free speech. Yet, there are people, regardless of their status, are always unhappy and are dedicated to making others unhappy, for once a dissident one is always a dissident. For instance, Mitch McConnel and his his never ending "NOs", which for me is a form of free speech violation, but then I don't have a net worth of ninety million dollars nor am I a member of congress.
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From a longer story:
The College’s counter-productive response reflects myths about fascism and fascist organizing. Within this framework, there is an open marketplace of ideas, and good ideas eventually triumph over poor ones just as surely as the invisible hand of market economics tends towards prosperity—-don’t intervene and everything will be fine. What this model omits, among other things, is the question of power. As history indicates, fascist political forces pose the question of power from the start, through creating an atmosphere of intimidation against opponents. Their speech reflects and magnifies strategies of violence—-street violence when on the periphery of power, massive structural violence when power is achieved. To pretend that civility is in order, therefore, is to clearly demonstrate that one will stand idly while intimidation takes place, and to give a go-ahead to fascist escalation. The idea that good ideas simply win out on their own, is furthermore an insult to all those throughout history who have had to risk, struggle, and sacrifice security for the purpose of freedom and dignity.
Finally, to give a neo-Nazi space to say that his movement is “about love,” is to sacrifice the concept that words have meanings as well as consequences. It is an improper stance not only for any educator, but for any thinking person.
Rose City Antifascists have contempt for Clark’s handling of this situation. We fully support students, staff and community members who are trying to address the reality of fascist organizing on campus in a more adequate manner.
Full story:
Nazi Propaganda on Vancouver Campus, Administration Assists Spread
http://rosecityantifa.org/1/post/2010/11/nazi-propaganda-on-vancouver-campus-administration-assists-spread.html
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So we have those concerned about the poster resort to calling people "white whiners" and "heterosexual whiners". They also unearth this "white privilege" garbage. The problem is those that are quick to suggest flushing freedom of speech down the toilet are those who have not and will not ever fight for these rights. They prefer letting others fight the battles while they sit in the local Starbucks and complain when someone is mean to them.
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u cant kick butt wearing burkenstocks
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For context I am a minority. I am also a big advocate of free speech.
So how to asses this situation for me is difficult. I agree that not reading the flier we are all making suppositions on it's actual content.
With that being said there is a clearly legal line as defined by our system of laws and government. The courts have been clear on many similar situations.Freedom of speech in America gives its citizens the right to speech that is free from censorship or limitations.
This right is not absolute though. Speech that would cause harm and/or hate speech is not constitutionally protected.
Hate speech is speech that contains no other purpose than to express hatred toward another group, especially in cases that it advocates violence against a specific group.
So while I'm morally offended that someone would post statistics about their own race's achievements it is perfectly legal speech in so far as the speech can be construed to an expression of one's individual pride and meant for others to ponder the idea of those feelings of pride.
But when swastikas and a link to a website which actually does advocate violence towards specific groups are added to the flier it becomes hate speech. The symbol of the swastika has become synonymous with the atrocities of genocide and therefore has become speech that is meant to insight fear.
I as a minority fear the sight of a swastika because of the knowledge and state of mind that the individual creating this speech would advocate both mental and physical harm upon me. I would venture a guess that a majority of people in the US view the swastika in the same way.
So as it stands this flier is on the cusp of legality. I personally think it is hate speech.
But this begs the larger questions:
Why is there racism? Is racism inherent to the human psyche? If not, what can be done to eliminate it?
What is the proper way to provide the constitutional right given to ALL citizens of the US to pursue life, liberty, and happiness?
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I really appreciate your well reasoned response and how you address the fine line that this flier walks. I did see it and it was not necessarily offensive in its contents. It simply addressed "white achievements" and the idea that white people should be proud of those achievements. Nothing in the flier promoted violence or advocated against any other group. However, there was a link on the flier and an invitiation to visit the organizations website, nsm88. The site is where the hate and violence come through. While never stated directly, the site advocates for a "white nation" and the forcible removal of anyone who doesn't agree with/follow their ideals or who doesn't fit in their mold (namely white).
I agree that it is proper to provide constitutional rights to all and I am with you. They should have a right to speak their mind and their opinions. That is protected. However, this group doesn't value or believe that ALL citizens of the US should have those rights. As long as they see others as less then they are, and they frame their argument in a way that places others below them, they will continue to be angry and see themselves as victims of a racist conspiracy.
I wish everyone believed as you do!
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My number one problem with all beliefs such as Mr Goncalves and the NSM is that if you don't believe exactly as they do, you are an enemy.
Don't get me wrong, I am also anti-racism and anti-ignorance, but this belief makes everyone either their friends, or thier enemy. There is no room in their philosophy for anyone else.
That should be another qualifier for hate speech: zero tolerance for anything other than your personal beliefs.
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With all of the hulabaloo over this flier incident, no one seems willing to bring out that shortly after, a former Black Panther Chief of Staff was *INVITED* to speak to students at Clark. Is the message from one hate group acceptable while another isn't?
As a Clark College Alumni, I stand back and watch certain names often mentioned in regards to the incident and it would seem the intent is more at ousting an effective White President who was brought in to replace an ineffective Black President.
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Because there was no hate speech at that discussion. But, then again, how would you know, Lew? Where you there?
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I just listened to the discussion on OPB tonight. It has been a while since I was in college but I still recognize the types. It is kind of a joke but everyone takes it all so seriously. Keep in mind that there are places in the world where people are killed for the race or sexual orientation.
On a college campus all this excitement sparks all sorts of righteous indignation. The Queer Penquins feel threatened but couldn't really tell the interviewer how they were threatened, they just didn't feel safe-and that was bad.
The Neo-Nazi was the better and more confident speaker. But, he was just off on his little strange trip that he thought up in prison.
The representative from the ACLU refused to directly answer the question and sounded pretty pathetic.
From what I heard I can't see a problem. Clark has a free speech policy. If the flyer did not advocate violence, then what is the issue? Does some speech deserve less freedom than other speech?
So what if it makes you feel uncomfortable-isn't college supposed to challenge you and make you think about things?
Everything worked like it was supposed to. The guy put up the flyer and people debated the issue.
As for the Queer Penguins, the leader was really talking himself into a corner. No one threatened them in any way. They just got themselves all worked up so they could all feel special and unique.
There are countries where gay people are killed and beaten. Hanging up a silly poster with a link to a stupid website and advocating or committing violence against someone are two very different things.
It occured to me that complaining about feeling threatened by a poster kind of diminishes the sacrifices of those who really suffer violence and death.
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This is strange. I am a college student at La Grande's very own Eastern Oregon University, and I have stumbled upon a flier of the same kind. However, there was only one other person on the campus that actually reported having found the flier.
At the top in bold brint is the word "MISSING" and a picture of a white toddler sits below followed by the words "A Future for White Children," and then a paragraph and more on the back.
Here is the link given: amren.com
Is this the same flier? same link? same anything?
I am currently doing an essay on the white separatist movement here in Oregon. It's due in a few days, so If anyone would like to point me towards helpful information, please do!
midyetj@eou.edu
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Contact your local historical society and the main Oregon branch in Portland. Also there are Jewish groups who keep track of those people, so ask around. I think that the NAACP might have some knowledge too, either their own or who to contact that tracks them. And I would expect that the Oregon Attorney Generals office would be keeping track too. Hmm, I wonder if your local FBI office might be able to help, though they might want to keep their investigations secret.
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I have decided to change subjects on my paper. It will now be over "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Anyone that would like to share their opinions with me are welcome.
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Comments are now closed.
I don't think saying mean or hateful things (hate speech) should be illegal because laws protecting free speech are there to protect speech is that unpopular. We obviously have limits to free speech such as censoring certain things like child pornography, but I think banning ‘offensive’ material would be the wrong approach. I never like to hear people say we should ban things that hurt or offends someone because no one has a right to not be offended.
Bottom line: the fliers that these students hand out says enough about their character that people will (rightfully) distance themselves from them, but I think having the government or school administration silence them would be wrong.
I also think it's interesting to note that the United States is one of the few countries where hate speech is currently legal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#United_States