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Getting Back to Work: Jobs and Identity
When you meet someone new, how long does it take for one of you to ask the other, "So, what do you do?" It's a common question used to glean information about a person's passions as well as the way they spend the majority of their time. Many people here, and elsewhere, define themselves as much by their jobs as by the things they love to do outside of work.
The connection between career and personal identity has shifted for many people in the recession. Thousands of people in Oregon are out of work and, as they look for new opportunities, many are exploring new career paths. Regardless of the recession, it's become unusual to expect to stay in the same job or even the same field for the majority of your working life. A guest on a recent show spoke to us about switching from being a commercial fisherman to a wind turbine technician.
So, how does your identity shift when you change jobs?
Did you recently change jobs or switch to a career in a different industry? Have you gone back to school in order to gain new skills? Are you unemployed? How has that affected your sense of who you are?
This is part of OPB's Getting Back to Work series. You can find news pieces from the series as well as more coverage of the economy here.
GUESTS:
- Tamara Timmons: About to graduate from Portland State University with a Bachelor's degree in health science, starting medical school at University of Southern California in the fall
- Ted Timmons: About to graduate from Portland State University with a Bachelor's degree in computer science
- Carolyn Aldwin: Professor in the human development and family sciences department at Oregon State University
- Chris Stout: Former owner of Serenity Landscapes
Tagged as: back to work · economy · employment · jobs
Photo credit: MikeWebkist / Creative Commons
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Your comments above seem rather like a self serving advertisement. Anyone studying the unemployment situation KNOWS the essential issue is not the inexpertly prepared resume or mismatched dress and accessaries, but the absolute lack of decent jobs.
People who have been a year or two without a job have a RIGHT to be depressed, dismayed and furious at the political classes who allowed and perhaps even encouraged the flight abroad of capital and good jobs.
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Gereng,
When you take responsibility you'll realize that even in a dim economic environment, those with a well prepared resume and attire are the ones that get the jobs.
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I went back to school in 1999, to study accounting. My intent was to change careers, from fast food/retail. I was advised that I should continue after getting my AAS, and pursue a BS in accounting, and that if I did, I would be able to "walk off campus and into a position with an accounting firm." HA! What a joke! The firms are not the least bit interested in talking to non-traditional students as interns, let alone as candidates for permanent positions. I would have been better off if I'd never gone back to school...I likely would still have a job, I wouldn't be buried up to my (well, you know...rhymes with "pits") in student loan debt, and I wouldn't be spinning my wheels job-wise in the current sinking-into-the-sewer economy.
25 months and counting, by the way...
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Maybe 20 million illegal aliens illegally working in the country might effect employment. Perhaps two wars costing presently $1 trillion may also have a dampening effect on economic growth. Then again, maybe, the capitalist class taking all the good manufacturing jobs to countries wil low labor costs and few taxes and rules may also be involved in our jobless situation.
We do know from reading history that great empires eventually all fall apart. The ones that expend most of their energy and resources pursuing political rather than economic goals go down fastest. That seems to be our plight. All our leaders are more concerned with a cutting a figure on the international stage than the tougher, less glamerous work of taking care of business here at home.
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Maybe 20 million illegal aliens illegally working in the country might effect employment. Perhaps two wars costing presently $1 trillion may also have a dampening effect on economic growth. Then again, maybe, the capitalist class taking all the good manufacturing jobs to countries wil low labor costs and few taxes and rules may also be involved in our jobless situation. -- Gereng — Fri June 4th 4:29p.m.
Excellent point, Gereng. I am pretty sure that those are all factors in my difficulty getting even an entry-level job. I have many years of work experience in foodservice, retail, and customer service, and so should have no problem getting an entry-level job. I was at a local fast-food outlet here in Eugene the other day, and I could see that the majority of workers in the kitchen were Latino/Latina, and couldn't help but wonder how many of them were of dubious immigration status.
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Everyone I see in Eugene with a tool in his/her hand looks furtive and speaks little if any English. I would guess that employers make slight effort to ascertain validity of proferred documents proving immigration status. My guess is the laws are honored more in the breach than observance and local authorities make NO effort whatever to enfore such laws as exist.
Ask the Chamber of Commerce what they are doing to see that local companies are doing their utmost to insure that such jobs that are available are going to American citizens and not law breaking, border jumping illegal aliens.
You'll find that illegal aliens exercise more political power than native born Americans...it is all about tomorrow's political supporters and demographics. In another 2 or 3 decades English will be THE minority language, and native born whites a despised minority...thought to be too silly to deserve a country they were to flabby to hold on to.
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Whenever economies tank, immigrants are usually the first scapegoats, because it's so much easier than looking at the real, more complicated causes of economic woes. My mother is an immigrant, and since we are white, we are protected from people making racist assumptions about who we are and where we are from. Others are not so lucky, and make easy targets. The color of their skin leads to unfounded assumptions about their legal status and hateful rhetoric.
Put the blame where it really belongs: on a system that is designed to protect the powerful and squash everyone else. While the powerless turn on each other, those at the top are laughing and getting away with huge bail-outs and cushy golden parachutes.
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For Emma from above.
In my 26 years as an aid mission director I have probably dealt with more varried staff and in much more complicated situations than you can even imagine.
In my last position before retiring, I was heading up a comprehensive aid program in southern Afghanistan where I managed a work force of more than 600 afghans, Pakistanis and other third country nationals.
Yes, Emma, I have read a few resumes and appraised a few applicants.
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Dear roadrunner. For 31 yrs I worked in foreign aid and lived in some 13 countries, and traveled extensively in as many more- most of which one would describe as LDCs.
I have a better than average idea of what the world pouring in here is like and what attitudes they bring with them and what they think about Americans unwilling to protect their place at the dinner table. They come here today mainly because those same attitudes have made unlivable hellholes out of their own countries. I know from a wide and lengthy experience of dealing with their homeland problems just what this mindset engenders.
You, dear person haven't a clue. And as most of Boobus Americanus is as clueless as yourself we shall soon sink beneath the weight of unassimulated emigrants. Think about this: When an Indian become home sick he may hop a plane and get back to Delhi. When a Chinese person is homesick for genuine hung chow, he goes back to China. When a Mexican wants real road kill tacos he too has a homeland to which he may return.
Where, dear person, do we of European extraction go when OUR homeland is turned into a polyglot ferrago of diversity and are compelled to learn a new language imposed by the wave of Spanish speakers we refuse to control?
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It sounds like you feel white people have a special claim to this part of the continent and the jobs here. Quite astounding. Where do white people go back to? The countries we came from or wherever else we are free to migrate to, just like all other immigrants. If we have complicated ties and backgrounds that make that difficult, so do other immigrants. We aren't special in that regard.
I grew up in an area where white people weren't the majority, so I don't share your fear of diversity and losing your white privileged status. The world has changed, and I can understand why some people are scared of change, but it's time to evolve. Migration is a natural part of human existence. People move where the resources are (including jobs) -- across city, state and national lines.
It's sad that after all your travels you don't understand the economics of immigration (and the U.S.'s huge role in creating an impetus to cross the border).
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It sounds like you feel white people have a special claim to this part of the continent and the jobs here. Quite astounding. -- roadrunner — Tue June 8th 9:28a.m.
Not quite what I was suggesting, roadrunner; I was suggesting that those of us who are CITIZENS should be given priority for jobs over those whose immigration status is questionable.
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Gereng,
With a Resume as full of the BS you state here, your an invaluable contributer to this forum.
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Looking forward in time, there are some fundamental truths (whether we like it or not)...
- Corporations will continue to pursue productivity gains (more product for less money)... among other things that means automation and finding low-cost labor forces. Unless the economy is booming this means that the pool of jobs at best will stay somewhat flat, at worst decline.
- Corporations are there to make money for shareholders so our 401K's might be worth something one day, not create jobs (unless that's profitable). Having managed teams in a large company, I can vouch for how closely the market's financial analysts watch a company's headcount.
- As long as our population continues to grow, we're going to have more and more people who will either wind up in meaningless roles ("taking out each other's laundry") or we'll learn what our grandparents learned... you pick up a shovel (hammer, screwdriver, etc.) and find an honest days work... and perhaps learn a trade in the process as my father did (miner turned electrician).
Lastly, while I don't support illegal immigrants (wherever they're from), I have to admire someone whose willing to stand in the rain on the chance that they'll have work today... when American's swallow their pride and start taking back day-labor stands around this country of ours, then I'll know our immigration problem is solved.
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More and more people chasing after a shrinking job pool moves America nearer to the LDCs I once worked among. Less land and water for crops and other purposes means rising prices that soon put land/water beyond the resources of wage earners...as is the case in the countries now happily sending us their useless mouths to employ and feed.
Mass emmigration is no longer a positive asset for a nation unable to employ its native born population. In fact holding open the door to any is irrational and will simply insure social chaos and tribal wars in America's future.
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G-
WRT to your comments about mass immigration, I appreciate the passion and directness... it's what happened to the OP's in America when the Europeans arrived and to a lesser degree it's been happening ever since... all immigrant classes who arrived in numbers had their cultural ghetto's to secure their cultures and create a comfortable "zone" until such time as they assimilated... it's still going on (ref: Muslims in France).
As I said, America can secure her borders by insisting it's people fill the niches immigrants typically fill (there are more than enough) or we can build walls... it's a pity that Americans will likely have to find themselves a lot colder and hungrier before they do... until that time, walls will be easier.
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To Roadrunner: When I lived in India (1970-72) I had an Indian friend observe to me one day that the most profoundly affecting aspect of life in India was that there were no places in India where a person could stand and not be under the scrutiny of another human being. America is quickly arriving to that condition because we are too silly not to halt immigration.
But regarding yr other comments: they are ignorant. Family, clan, tribe, language, religion, a tribal history are the glue that bonds a people together. When these are deliberately destroyed as they are being in the US today by an invasion of unalike peoples (non Christian Europeans) ...the center can not hold..." in Yeats words.
But the people flooding in DO have a concept of tribe. They will teach it to you. Like Dicken's Uriah Heep, once in the driver's seat, they will throw off their humble attitude and stand up and remake this nation into the hell hole they just escaped.
Like most Americans you have a very limited idea of the rest of the world and its inhabitants and thus no conception of what is coming because of the invasion. But you will learn. They will teach you.
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What is going on here? This isn't a debate about immigration. I agree largely with roadrunner, in that a majority of blame falls with corporations. Locally, we have Nike, which produces most of their goods overseas. If they would show some of the national pride others feel in this forum, unemployment might not be such a problem. Also, someone is hiring those looking for work. If you have an issue with a local restaurant, etc. hiring people not in your community, talk to the person who does the hiring. Blaming those looking for work is not going to solve anything.
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Ack!!!
You were on topic with your original post! We really do want to talk about jobs and identity here. Can you re-post your story about what you and your wife are going through?
Thanks,
Dave
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I have lived and worked all over the world, literally. I never worked in any country that did not control who entered, resided and worked in their nation. That was even the case in Somalia when I spent a yr there in 1985-86.
Insuring that people entering their country are there LEGALLY and have NOT broken laws entering their nation is NOT an irrational idea. It goes hand in glove with the concept of citizenship and national identity. If being poor and having made a mess of one's own country is the only criteria for entering another country without a visa and by breaking that nation's laws and by breaking laws of one's own homeland, then fine. lets abolish the concept of citizenship and national borders entirely and allow everyone to float about as they please. Are the people on this board unaware that people crossing our borders from Mexico break the laws of their homeland as well as breaking laws in OUR land??
To leave any nation in Latin America legally one must have a passport and CLEAR their taxes. They must also have a valid visa for the intended destination. Additionally they must cross at an internationally recognized and controlled entry/exit point.
So, those flooding into Amerca from Mexico are criminals when they leave Mexican territory having already broken 3 or 4 laws in their country before setting foot in America and breaking a half dozen more laws on our side of the border. That makes them CRIMINALS!!! I know of no other civilized country on earth where criminal behavior is not only NOT controlled, but in fact is actually encouraged by the very people the laws were enacted to protect!!!
I have never in my life read such howling nonsense from supposedly intelligent people in my life. Little wonder they cross the border in increasing numbers and carry Mexican and OTHER FLAGS to their demonstrations to show their contempt. We certainly give them ample reason to think we have become a nation of flabby minded nincompoops without the gumption to protect our own welfare.
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I know, I'm sorry I removed it. I copied it but lost it. Anyway, this was wildly off-topic.
Essentially, my wife is a newly-licensed teacher absolutely unable to find any type of work, even for the summer. I am 'stuck' in a job that has begun to negatively effect my out-of-the-office life, mainly that the frustration both my wife and I feel about the inability to find either a first job or a new job is starting to erode our marriage (and we've only been married two years). In fact, just this morning, I was thinking to myself about the nature of marriage and whether it becomes a source of love, such as why we got married, or obligation, such as to pay our mortgage. This is a very real effect of the employment situation - both the intense frustration of not being able to find one and also being so unhappy in a work situation that it does start to define you. It is a very tricky situation right now. Taking any job for the sake of working/paying bills can lead to profound effects on senses of personal fulfillment and self-worth. At what point is it time to leave Oregon? And is it really better anywhere else?
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People in this country better begin thinking like the vast majority of working stiffs across the planet. Forget about self fullfillment and self esteem and other such self indulgent sentiment. Think about survival and eating and keeping a roof over your head(s). Also in tough times DON"T procreate...leave child beareing until you can assuredly feed yourselves.
Think about marriage as have most folk since the beginning of human coupling. It is another basic tool of survival, like having a gaggle of brats when one is working the land. Marriage brings two incomes to a household that perhaps couldn't be afforded on the wages today of a single worker. With two people, if one becomes ill the other may still work and assure some income. The world over, marriage is far less about romantic love than it is about the economics of survival. As our economic woes deepen-as they will- marriage will once again become the foundation of human survival.
If loves follows count yourselves lucky. But bodily strength, good health, intelligence and toughness of spirit are more important than beauty or sparkling wit when the excrement hits the fan.
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Thank heaven, or the fates, or whomever, whatever; our parents raised us to be aware that 'what we did,' did not define 'who we were.' I've been a vocational counselor for thirty years, though now have been on unemployment over a year, with few prospects in sight. I'm not optimistic about having a job by the end of the year, nor about returning to work in 'my chosen vocation.'
I continue sending out applications and resumes, but am also exploring other options, trying to think 'out of the box.'
I never anticipated anything like this, and am, certainly, daunted at times, but never defeated - one way or another, I shall still be here when this is over - whatever I happen to end up doing....
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For Emma
Gee Emma, Why do you accuse me of BS? Everything I have written about myself is perfectly true. There is no reason to lie- my life and work have been sufficiently interesting to have no need to embellish any of it. If your's hasn't been- well, that is hardly anyone's fault but your own.
The Marine Corps sent me to French Indo China (54-55). That was the name on the maps we used, and to Egypt (55-58) as a Marine embassy security guard. (then college) The NGOs I worked for from '62 to '93 posted me (in order) Greece (training) Turkey, Iran, Algeria, India, Belize, Sri Lanka, Colombia, Liberia, Uganda, Somalia, Indonesia and finally Afghanistan/Pakistan (Quetta offices).
A job that was always fascinating and educational and different in every assignment: Occasionally too much excitment, and some very real dangers and a few interesting diseases (fileria for one...you know, elephantiasis). Along the way my wife and I reared and educated four children. Anything else you wish to know? I'm happy to oblige.
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I'm sorry that you (OPB) seem to think that immigration is somehow "off-topic," but I gotta tell you that when one is denied a job because of it being taken by some Latina or Latino of dubious immigration status, it really does matter...and thus it is NOT 'off-topic.'
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Immigration is clearly an important topic when it comes to the economy and workforce issues broadly, but it's off-topic today in the sense that we're hoping to focus specifically on jobs and identity.
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Repost from earlier, pre-immigration...
Hi. I am in a job that I absolutely want to get away from for many reasons - health (I have a degenerative retina/eye condition and this job is entirely computer-based), professional (while in the field I have worked in for years before, the nature of the job is purely data-entry), and, most of all, happiness. My wife is a newly-minted elementary teacher who is unable to find teaching work, even for the summer. I have held onto this job while she finished school and now as she is looking, but we are facing very tough prospects. Being in this job has been demoralizing, to say the least, and has had a very negative effect on my overall interaction with the day. It is very frustrating to feel like my wife worked so hard to become certified as a teacher and that she would find work, which would alleviate the financial strain. However, it seems we are both stuck.
I am grateful that I can pay our mortgage but it's coming at the cost of our married happiness. I wish I could separate my work life from my personal life but it's difficult to just leave the effects of work behind when there is so much frustration everywhere outside of work. At what point do we leave Oregon? Is it weak that my workday affects my after-workday? I feel like my marriage is paying the cost of such a horrible economy and that the inability to find or change jobs is the biggest reason. -
'What do you do?' It is unfortunate that the question has been hijacked, as a way, to find out how important someone is. I generally never ask the question, because I don't want to be perceived as someone who takes an interest in someone because I think they are 'important.' But, I often do want to know what people do or what their job is like, because I think it is interesting. I think work is interesting. We spend so much time doing it. And, the routine of it intrigues me. It also seems fascinating how sometimes people are so different at work then at home---they take on a new role and are part of a different community, often their family is totally unaware of how the person goes about their day. Work can seem so separate, two lives. But, really, there is nothing wrong with the question of 'what do you do?', just perhaps why you ask it, and how you treat the answer.
I was the pathetically embarrassed victim of a work related incident, but I was a teenager (16 or 17) at the time. I dressed fairly wildly, a sort of stylized gothic club kid, and I went out every night. People started to know me because I looked so extreme, and even though I was underage I got into all the bars, because I was on the list, or just got in because of the getup I was wearing. At my first job, while still in high school, I worked in a department store, and a writer from a newspaper who covered nightlife came into the store and saw me, and said, 'Wow, so, you just dress up at night to get into all the parties and this is what you do for work? Impressive.' I was mortified, I know I shouldn't have been, but I was... .
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Been a waiter for 30-years in Portland-Metro Area. BEST job ever... and no one ever plans make the craft a career! Many of my peers have a variety of college degress and are still explaining to their family, friends, associates why they haven't ever gotten a "real job". Waiting tables provides incomes the aquire and maintain real homes, real vacations, real tuitions, real families and pay REAL BILLS! American culture still does not consider waiting tables a legitimate career path no matter what how much money can be earned. Amazing how many of the people who lost their "real jobs" the past 24-months came rushing back to waiting tables thinking thier experience 10-20 years ago as a waiter would land them the waiter job they thumb their noses at before!
Paul C. Paz - WaitersWorld.com
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I'm a software engineer. I was laid off last month because management decided that they could save a lot of money by sending my job overseas (no one in the group really thinks that will work, but that's another topic).
I choose to think of myself as between gigs. In the meantime I'm working on the yard and the house. It seems like either you have a job (and money) and no free time, or you have no job and plenty of freetime. So for now I'm trying to enjoy the free time.
One advantage I think that people in my field have is that we can work on Open Source projects during our time off. That keeps our skills up to date and allows us to feel productive even if we aren't being paid to do the work. I really enjoy the challenges of software engineering and generally it's a lot more fun when you do it for free... not that one can afford to do that for very long, of course, but it does often lead to paid gigs.
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What about the older notion of "vocation," the idea that each person's capacities are geared to a particular function that will fulfill them. Some people refer to it as a calling, something that holds you to the work regardless of other considerations like money, etc. When I lived in Europe, I noticed this more often in countries where the jobs like physician, etc, were not characterized by terribly high incomes.
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My husband was laid-of from a high-teck management job a few months after his father went reluctantly into retirement at the age of 75. His dad had dedicated much of himself to his job and had not figured out what to do with himself without his work. My husband saw this happening to his dad and decided to use his own lay-off as practice for retirement. He explored new physical and artistic activities, and we spent more time together in a quiet house with our kids in high school and collage. It actually felt really good for both of us, and he found a new balance between his work and not work self.
At the end of the month he starts a new full time job, after two years of no work and part time work. I am hopeful that he will cary his new found balance forward.
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I am changing careers after owning my own business for 25 years. People that know me, totally associate me with my former career.
As I am trying to transistion into a new career, while keeping my business open on a smaller scale, I am having a hard time getting people to think of me in terms of other than my former business.
My former business seems very appealing to people and they can't believe I would transistion out of it, while they would dream of getting into it. I have just grown weary of working in a labor of love for very little money.
There needs to be a balance between career goals and personal life, or your career can swallow you up and you may never break that bind.
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Here's a way to think about job and identity:
We had the pleasure of being put up in a nice apartment by a friend's uncle in Corsica, France. He was about 90 years old and he grew vegetables and grapes, made wine, hunted boar and fished and harvested sea urchin. He had lived in America for a while when he was younger and said that one of his greatest irritants of American culture/ mannerisms was the question "what do you do for a living?". His response, "I f#@$!&g breathe!"
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If money were not an issue - Oh my... what a dream. I'd devote A LOT more time to learning. I've been out of college about 8 years and i look back and realize how many things i did NOT take advantage of in those days . I dream of spending time working on art, crafts, photography, learning to sew, reading, writing... but yet, after a busy work day (working in internet marketing/ecommerce) there just isn't enough time. If money was not an issue i think i'd get myself into classes, spend more time learning photography (something i consider a hobby, but would love to take more seriously)
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I no longer tie my identity to my career or job. It's taken about 10 years to decouple my personality from my work.
I've had several different jobs over my work life. I've taken classes to attempt to find new employment but additional schooling has not helped. I am currently unemployed -- this time for three years. My last job move was from being an Information Technology engineer to managing an outdoor sports shop.
Being unemployed is occassionally worrisome because I doubt my self worth. On the other hand I take better care of myself now because I devote all my waking time to non-work pursuits. I don't bring the job home any more and that is a supreme blessing.
The quality of my unemployed life is better in all aspects except not earning income and benefits. I like to imagine that I'm part of a heretofore undefined movement: the post-career zeitgeist. There are lots of things I like to do in addition to work.
Some day I will seek to earn income again, but for the time being I enjoy retirement number two and push negative thoughts to the side. I work when I have to but not to define myself.
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I began as a radio announcer in commercial radio while earning a journalism degree. I moved on to Public Radio and Television, living from grant to grant and running a small media production business. I loved it, until it stopped paying a living wage. I went back to school and became an secondary school English teacher to learn what real poverty and extremely long hours were all about. I earned a Master's degree and taught at the community college teaching English and loved it, until the recession hit. After moving to Oregon, I found that I was underqualified to teach anywhere, so I am back in school. If this new effort at a Master's degree in special education fails to land a job for me, I will begin thinking of myself as retired.
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I had no idea how defined I was by my job and education. after being laid off the hardest part of my journey understanding how to define myself outside of this, and how to be proud of that. I lost self in one way but gained it in a huge way as well. trying for over a year now to get a job in my field, or something like it, has pushed my self awareness and caused me to really consider my abilities and self worth. Is till want to work, but when i do go back I will go back with a different understanding of what it is to work and the measurement it plays in my life. I am so many other things beyond a job and education...
MB
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Back in the mid '90s, I was a software engineer in Salt Lake City, writing and building automated material handling systems, robots to the rest of the world. The company I was working for got bought out by its biggest competitor, and that was going to lead to some significnt changes to the Salt Lake office that I did not agree with, so I decided that a change was needed. I had always liked Portland, so I decided to look for a job here. After about a year of searching, the best I could come up with was a System Administrator position. I went ahead and accepted it with the idea it would be temporary while I looked for another developer position. Now, 15 years later, I am still a System Administrator. That title has been good to me, it pays well and such, but I miss the developer work. I still think of myself as a software engineer, but I have been out of that line for so long that I will probably never get back to it without some serious re-training. But at least I made it to Portland!
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Presently my identity is very much connected to what I do all day, which is a Stay At Home Mom. I voluntarily left my teaching career to stay home and raise my children. It's interesting when people ask me what I do or "do you work?" because I DO work very hard at my job, I just don't get recognized for it nor get paid for it.
As my children are getting a little older I am considering going back to work, for financial reasons as well as because I feel some sort of societal pressure to "work" outside of the home. But with the job market now, especially in education, I don't think I can get a job teaching again. So I don't know what to do or how to define myself now.
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It depends on your job, whether it becomes part of your identity. There is nothing wrong with it either way. I think what we mean by 'your identity,' is really something more like: you have nothing else going for you! But, we don't seem to mind this if someone is a writer or a rock star. It's double-edged.
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If money was no object I would love to quit being a nurse and do something more satisfying. If any OPB listeners are considering a carrer in nursing please think very carefully about your choice. It is difficult work, long hours, physicaly demanding, mediocre pay and amazingly poor representation. You can expect to be exposed to personal violence, discrimination, belittling comments, abusive personalities and infectious diseases. Those few moments when something truely wonderful happens in nursing are quickly overshadowed by the other 99.999% of the job.
Nurses are the first to be blamed for every patient death, infection, complication, and comlaint. Your employer will sacrifice you, the nurse, before they sanction a doctor or tell a family member they are being unreasonable.
Oh and if you don't speak Spanish you had better learn before entering nursing. If your patient doesn't speak English and can't tell you their medical history you are still responsible if something goes wrong and you and your family can be held personally responsible.
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Work is definitely different for everyone (like most things). I have a friend who is a nurse and likes it. She was a bit disillusioned by it at first, but she loves the job. She likes the challenge of dealing with the down at heel, which seems to be a lot of the patients. She complains often bout the other nurses though, saying they are unwilling to help each other and that so many of them moralize about the patients. It definitely seems like a demanding and stressful profession, though.
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While I was in between jobs I pieced together my income from three sources: doing legal research, walking dogs and promoting films. Technically I was a lawyer, but not working full time in that field. When people asked me what I did, I had three choices I could have offered. It depended upon the context, of course, but most often I found myself saying "dog walker" because that's generally a job that has a positive connotation. My friends, if present would out me by saying, "oh shut up...she's a lawyer." Don't get me wrong, I'm very proud to be a lawyer because of the hard work and hurdles one has to get past to achieve that goal. But people attach their own assumptions to that profession, which are sometimes easier to avoid. I do derive some of my identity through my work, but I often focus on other aspects of it such as working for the government or working in the environmental field and chose to forefront those aspects and downplay the legal aspect.
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As a refugee of the profession formerly known as "the media", I have had the opportunity to re-evaluate who I am. I wrote a book, but have struggled to identify myself as a "writer" without cringing.
But I have noticed that people in Portland seem more likely to define themselves by their passions than their professions. People tend to say, "I'm a photographer" not "I'm an administrative assistant." Creativity and passion are key here and it makes it easier to embrace the things that mean the most to us.
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Hollyanna, this really strikes a chord with me. I agree that Portland tends to be less occupation-focused than other cities. It's much more about experiencing things than showing off.
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I don’t have an identity based on my job and that kills me.
I am stuck coming up with other interesting things about myself.
I am very average and jealous of people who have something to label themselves. I crave the label!
I had been unemployed for a 1.5 year and when people asked what I do I told them I’m a statistic.
At the moment I have found a contract so now I tell people I’m one of those people waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Maybe this would change if I had a man or family of my own or some great passion. But all I have right now is a dog.
NaTasha
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NaTasha: why does your identity need to be tied to a family or a dog or a man? What do you LIKE to do in life? A caller (Kelly?) talked about identifying as a snowboard instructor.
Hobbies are good, as is volunteering.
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I am 58 and on my third career. I was first a graduate student in French, aiming to be a college professor. Even though I was at at the top-ranked program in the country, the job market started falling through the floor. After talking with many people in many jobs, I decided to go to law school. After practicing law and enjoying it greatly for 20 years, I realized that I had to withdraw from lawyering to support my son, who has autism. Now I am an "intelligence at large." I care for my family and spend many hours a work in unpaid collaborative efforts to improve services for people with autism. In a real way, I continue to use the knowledge and skills I developed from both of my prior careers. In each of them I have defined myself by what I did & do, because each has involved my exploring and developing a part of myself, as well as accomplishing other goals (money, respect, social interaction).
I think being defined by your work is bad when it crowds out all other relationships and when you are separated from it against your will. Otherwise, it is a healthy reflection of being passionate about what you do.
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my identity I do not think is linked solely to my job. I sell tibetan art from 2 monasteries in eastern Tibet. I identify with the volunteer work I do for a tibetan NGO. this is my passion. This is what I promote, not my business. I have been a spook, a furniture maker, a car salesman, a business consultant, in each of these occupations I worked with and helped community service organizations, my occupation is a tool, my identity is what I do to help others.
it always bothers me when people ask what I do and I know that they are asking for an occupation, as if to judge you by your occupation. No one asks about my passions.
david huber
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My ideal job would require only 20 hours a week of my time, precisely because I DON'T identify with my job. Part of why people end up feeling that they are their jobs is because they work so many hours, they have no time for outside interests. If we had more balance in our lives, we probably would not identify so strongly with our work.
I'm fascinated by the extent to which most people identify with their jobs. I was born without this character trait, and have always viewed a job as an evil necessity to get the bills paid, and as an interruption of activities that I enjoy. I basically resent the need to work. I quit my job as a flight attendant five years ago and traveled on a sailboat and in a hippie van until I decided I wanted more money and a sense of belonging to a community. Now I'm searching for a job I can get some enjoyment from, but my hopes aren't high.
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Thank you so much for getting this discussion going. For years I have found my identity tied up in my work, and I often have the impression that I am alone. This discussion has affirmed that I am not. I don't know if this has come up in the discussion or comments today, but Workaholics Anonymous is a real organization (though some assume it's a joke) and it has been immensely helpful for me as I've navigated layoffs, career changes, etc. A person can actually be physically addicted to work, with the adrenaline rush that comes with continually being over-stressed. Being aware of this has changed my approach to work, and, consequently, has changed the rest of my life for the better. http://www.workaholics-anonymous.org/
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I was constantly pushed to do something. Get a degree. Get another one. Get a job. Get another one. Finally all the people pushing me went away, and now that I am disabled I am no longer working I am the happiest I have ever been. I never wanted to do all those things, I just did what other people wanted me to do, which oddly enough never seemed to make them happy, so all of us were miserable. All those things they insisted I do never had anything to do with me, who I was, who I am, or what I wanted to do, because all I ever wanted was to not work, and although my family had the ability to make that so, they choose not to for reasons I will never understand because they constantly said they wanted me to be happy. So now they are all gone, I am very happy to not be working and all I can say is the Lord works in mysterious ways.
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A lot of people would be happy not to work; but most of us have no choice. Sounds tough being born with a silver spoon.
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Great show today. Having recently become unemployed, I've been going through a little of the usual depression. A big part of that was tied to my identification with my career. Listening to the show, I realized that if you were to ask my best friends (the ones who really know me) to describe me, the term "software quality engineer" would not be uttered once. Those that know me Identify me for who I am, who I love, and what I love doing (not what pays my mortgage). What seems to be obvious for so many people has just now come to light for me. Thanks for the discussion.
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I was on Think Out Loud last year, speaking of my experience of being fired for the first time, and dealing with unemployment and the ensuing depression over my financial difficulties and my inability to find employment. Shortly after that program I found two part time jobs in the music industry, a field I had always pursued. I still deal with the financial shortcomings, and found an additional part-time job doing front desk work, a field I told myself I would never return to. Funny how desperate times can make us return to jobs we swore we would never return to. In the end financial survival overrides any notions of "moving on." Now, music is the work I identify as my work and my life, but in the end, I've learned that a multitude of other things make up who I am, my friends, my additional hobbies, etc. I am not ashamed of the other sources of employment I need in order to get by. But without the work that is my passion, the world has a little less color.
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Great show this morning.
I found a gem of a book that embraces many of the issues discussed on the radio and in these comments. It has a unique approach to career development AND is packed with practical, relevant information for career and employment. The authors have huge amount of personal and practical experience to draw from.
Check it out: "A Taste for Work...Your Menu for Career Success" by Teri Clancy, Joy Maquire- Dooley, Sally Morrison.
I found it at Amazon.com for around $14.95. A great investment.
BTW I have nothing to gain recommending this book.
Good Luck!
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I think our concern with Identity, whether it is work related or not, is ultimately best satisfied by "making ourselves proud" in all that we do. Those I have known who are most satisfied in life, have come to recognize that they can be lazy, selfish, and cowardly, in at least 5 different areas of living, i.e., physically, mentally, socially, psychologically, and ideologically.
Put another way: Make yourself useful. [We all do well to contribute.] Make yourself proud,(in all that you do). And remember to play enough to not become boring to your fellow man. [All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.]
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Comments are now closed.
Greetings!
As a professional résumé writer based here in Portland, I work with many folks who are struggling to transition back into employment after being laid off, downsized, switching a career, or attempting to find work after being fired.
One thing that I find that many people go into shellshock. Many of these workers had, in the past, previous jobs handed to them and never had to interview, but are now finding themselves shoulder-to-shoulder with applicants in a swirling sea of sharks competing for what few jobs there are out there.
One tip that I always share with my clients to help overcome the discouraging and ego-bashing effort (otherwise known as job searching) is to volunteer. Volunteering can restore a sense of self-worth, identity, and direction to people who are currently not working. By focusing the volunteer effort, this can also count as a job record on their résumé if they volunteer in a professional capacity, which can help alleviate the pressure of having a glaring employment gap.
Additionally, by volunteering and engaging in altruistic activities, this releases endorphins, the 'feel-good' hormones... which is exactly what a job seeker needs the most to keep their spirits up. This, in turn, impacts how they carry themselves and the body language that they project while conducting their job search. Being energized with a sense of meaning gives off a completely different vibe than someone who is depressed, sagging, and moping.
I have more insights to share about the job search process if this would be helpful to the show; have worked with 400+ clients across the U.S. in all economic sectors and employment levels.
Best regards,
Dawn Rasmussen, President (also on OPB Community Advisory Board)
Pathfinder Writing & Career Services