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Graffiti, Gangs and Growth

AIR DATE: Monday, March 3rd 2008
POSTED BY: SARAH JANE ROTHENFLUCH
Download the mp3 for this show.

A murder indictment in Eugene, a near-death in Yamhill County, and a shootout, stabbing, and surge of graffiti in the Keizer-Salem area have law enforcement officials concerned about a rise in gang activity around the state.While the Crips and Bloods dominated Oregon's gang scene in the 1990s, a group from Central America known as Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, has more recently moved in. Both followed the traditional gang route into the Northwest: driving up I-5.

On Monday, we explore how much Northwest gangs are now home grown and how communities try to keep gangs from taking root.Have you ever been in a gang, or known someone in a gang? Have you tried to convince someone not to join? What do you think is the best way to combat gang violence?

Note: If you caught Friday's program, you may have heard that Monday's show would include the story of a young woman who was a member of the Bloods in LA, then moved to Oregon to attend the U of O. She had to cancel her participation for personal reasons.

GUESTS:

 

 

Tagged as: crime · gangs · i-5

I use to be a Westside Crip in southern California. In 2000, I made the decision to flee that life and move to Portland, Oregon for a fresh start. Since then I?ve graduated from college and now find myself aiming to complete a Master?s degree in Urban Ministry, so I can return to the hood with a message of hope and love. In my time, I?ve know countless gang members- talented, intelligent, promising young men and women- who have died in vain.
As for your next question, yes, I?ve tried to convince kids not to join gangs (successfully and unsuccessfully) some even related to me while I was still in the gang. But as for the best way to combat violence, that?s something we?re going to need to discuss because the roots of violence are nourished by family, friends, media, a need for protection, a desire for respect, television, and most definitely music. Let me know if you need a volunteer for the show. In recent months I've witnessed a rise in gang activity.
Majorxtreme —
I grew up in Las Vegas where we had a lot of gang activity. One of the reasons I left was to get away from all of the violence. Now Oregon is becoming just as violent. I have no problem with people coming together as a community, but hate and violence doesn't help anyone and I feel like if immigrants are going to live here they need to leave their violence behind them.
guidedoglover —
How much of the gang violence and financial support for them comes from drug distribution and sales?

The only contact I have had with gang members was when I worked for a drug and alsohol treatment program and we sometimes made adjustments in group, during the very start of someone's program, if there were opposite gang affiliations. For the most part, our program insisted that seperation only lasted through the first phase. I don't know of any negative incidents that happened once our clients were clean and working on staying sober.
JuliaMJK —
Is it true that people are pushed into gang involvement seeking out things missing in their family and social life? Are "gangs" ever formed, officially or unofficially, in order to provide a community essential things like security or social services that the state is for some reason not providing? How often does a local police force identify a group as a gang when the supposed members don't see themselves that way?
gabriel —
Gangs are another product of our Economy. As people have been pushed out of upper end job, to lower end (fast food type) jobs. Teens have been pushed out of these jobs and into doing..nothing. Another contributing factor is having both parents work. If you have Mom(or Dad) at home to keep track of teen agers it's a lot harder for them to gather up and commit mischief. Gangs are another product of the free trade movement. Fix our economy and Gangs (and much crime) will thin out.
Frostfly —
I'm curious if the recent spike in gang activity in Portland (and the police saturation patrols) are relatd to the Asia Bell murder trial?
dotyoureyes —
I'm a little concerned about what I'm hearing. Are you saying "rap music and dance moves" mean gang behavior? Or is what I hear that African American culture is somehow indicative of danger? I feel like you are walking a very fine line.
cook97203 —
All I am hearing is talk about minority gang activity. Can your guests address white gang activity as well. Also, I have noticed a rise in graffiti, which isn't always gang related, but rather for artistic purposes. I have seen a huge increase of this in inner NE and SE portland, where alot of the transplants are moving. I heard the people who do this type of graffiti are 18-24 year old white males. Can you're guests address this topic as well.
Nickel Arcade —
Hello,
This is a very timely topic for my neighborhood where we are experiencing an uptick in property crimes - graffiti, car break-ins, vandalism. I would like to ask Mr. Bensen how we, as a neighborhood, can respond to teenagers that are beginning to dress in gang colors. There are a couple of specific kids that we're worried about, that are out of control, with no parental supervision. If parents don't care, how can we help stop this kind of gang behaviour. Thank you.
davidx —
I find it funny that you?re guests have tried to sugar coat the link between gangster rap & gang violence for political correctness. The facts are that the Gangster rap culture promotes violence with its ?bling Bling? ideology.

You don?t see hipsters doing drive-by?s bumping spoon or modest mouse.

Your guests are doing a disservice by trying to be political correct.
Luponsensay —
I'm sure all those hipsters own "Straight Outta Compton" as well! I don't think music tastes are as important as socio-economics and education, when considering the differences between gang members and hipsters.
kyle81 —
I am a 36 yr old white dude who grew up in california in the hip-hop world. I have always listened to violent anti establishment music and that has never led me to committ any crimes. Music has absolutely NOTHING to do with a persons actions. Furthermore there hasnt been any cop killing songs since ice-T and actually Rage against the machine is more hardcore than most hip-hop especially today. Rappers no longer even talk about HOW they got money just that they have tons of it already. I dont see how bragging about your gold chain makes a kid join a gang?
scottt —
While it may be true for you that the music didn't have a negative influence that resulted in criminal activity. The whole thing is more of a cultural problem whether it be family culture, the culture in their ring of influence( friends, aquaintances, etc.) The fact is that this music stems out of the gang lifestyle and culture! These are philosiphies and ideals that are being preached through the music and although they may affect nothing that you are doing they solidify the anti culture for the new generation that is being raised up in it.

I don't imagine their are many gang bangers that go around thumping to Brittany Spears. That is what they listen to it is what is directly associated with them.

Kids emulate their idols so if they see their idol through signs and watch them rollin' with their homeys with their 9 on their side. History proves and marketers know that we are a copy cat society!!!
woody73 —
Two of Portland?s more prominent gangs (during the 80s-90s) - were dissolved by the Multnomah County DA's office using the RICO law to convict the gangs as a group (vs. the individual). If gangs are on the "rise" (again) - will these law enforcement tactics be used again? Or, was the RICO approach seen as a failure?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/04/arts/04fake.php
tolsenjr —
The most difficult part of RICO to prove is a specific structure to the gang. Many street gangs simply don't have that structure. RICO has been attempted several other times without success. The Police and the Prosecutors must commit for the long case with RICO because it uses a lot of time and resources.
NWGangIA —
I hear you saying that Hispanic gangs are on the rise. Is this a phenomenon in the US or can the gang tendencies be traced to gangs in Central America? I guess I'm wondering if this activity is stronger in the US because the environment is better than in the home countries.
If gang activities are found in home countries are they as active as they are in the US?

(Ofeargall is pronounced 'ohFEHRrl'...)
Ofeargall —
Last summer I had the privelege of offering a poetry workshop for detained youths awaiting trial on measure 11 charges as part of a PSU senior project. To me, the most striking thing about the (mostly gang affiliated) kids being held at the Juvenile Justice Complex is their ordinariness, their youthful vulnerability, and their inherent promise as citizens. One of the most talented poets in the measure 11 unit explained a situation of little alternative to entering gangs - they perceive non-affiliation as more dangerous than joining a gang. Most importantly, there is no exit strategy for gang membership - no clear mechanism for reintegration into normal society short of relocating, a costly and unlikely option for poor youth of color. We need ex-gang youth empowered, funded and supported so that they may design gang recovery programs that actually work! Let youth help eachother, and don't focus on prevention only - these are capable young people in search of a legitimate place society!
mariahm —
Growing up in a lower mid class neighborhood sandwiched between two projects in Tucson, I saw who made a future and who lost theirs. I you think your kids are involved, research gang symbols. Hand signs and Crip/Blood Walking type dances are readily identified. Learn the words such as "Cholo" "Ese" and other common slang ID. The kids that made it were involved in positive group activities, and were aware of the world outside the Hood. The kids that fell had nothing else to do, and often needed protection from others.
TucsonNate —
I am wanting to address why young people join gangs. Some of the reasons for joining a gang may include:

A search for love, structure, and discipline

A sense of belonging and commitment

The need for recognition and power

Companionship, training, excitement, and activities

A sense of self-worth and status

A place of acceptance

The need for physical safety and protection

A family tradition

I have two questions:

I personally feel that people who join gangs don't feel like they fit into society. I feel that they believe that there is little opportunity for them to be visible in their communities, so they turn to violence to release their frustrations. I also feel that our continued view of gangs, seeing only the outcome of violence perpetuates the problem and not the solution.
The gang is the RESULT of a deeper issue---self esteem problems, recession, lack of opportunity and education.

Questions: What are you doing to combat the reasons why these people turn to gangs? What is being done to educate these people as to why they may turn to violence?

Katherinebird —
I am home making cookies for a cub scout dinner tomorrow night, and it strikes me that we have a society that doesn't always try to move children into positive activities when they are young. Is there evidence that having kids involved in cub or girl scouts, 4H, Camp Fire, etc make a difference as they get older?
JuliaMJK —
Frankly I was offended by your guests laughter at the idea of legalization of the things the gangs participate in. When you "crack down" on local drug trade it doesn't take long for mexicans to realize there is a huge market for meth here. Gangs will move around only if they see dollar signs. There is no reason for a southern california gang member to travell except to bring a 10,000 dollar rock of meth. Once hes here and realizes the market, more members will be on their way. It's so simple that your "Gang Experts" can't figure it out. It's obvious to me that if those people are in charge of stopping increased gang activity we're in big trouble. People want to live the american dream they are not inherantly BAD. What options are the police offering a 15 yr old latino to make money? McDonalds aint gonna pay for no impala on 20's. How many gang kids come from well-off families. Oh zero? What's the REAL social question we need to ask?
scottt —
Scott, I would offer to you that regardless of what you legalize or don't legalize, the gangs will always be around. Gangs are not a new problem. They are not something that just happened. The Police should not be responsible for giving a 15 yr old Latino a job. Today we have 'instant gratification'. Youth don't know how to live and work for a future. They want it all now and they have a sense of 'deserving' those things. Why does a 15 year old need an Impala on 20's? Gang activity can be curtailed by everyone helping. Police, Social Services, and Education. How will you help? Or will you expect others to do it for you?
NWGangIA —
I've been listening to the discussion on gangs, and a few minutes ago Emily asked if there were teachers out there who had ideas.

Well, I'm certain there are, but HELLO? Most of them are teaching at this time of day. They're not listening, and they can't call you. ***

Teachers have to be a great resource -- one of the best, along with parents -- regarding kids. So, of course, you should be seeking their input. Here are a couple of suggestions:

1) If you have child- and adolescent-related topics, air those programs on the days when a lot of the big school districts have a day off. But, be sure it's a day off for teachers as well as kids.

2) I think most districts have e-mail "broadcast" capacity these days. So, if you have a topic relevant to teachers or about which you want their input, you could compile a list of contacts in the central offices of the state's school districts, and mail the topic letter and request for opinions to those contact persons who would then distribute it -- you would at least be able to get some on-line (vs on-air) discussion of the topic at hand.

Love the show! (when I can listen).

Snoresly


*** On a related topic: my wife is a Portland Public teacher. She is on PPS internet/e-mail. However, in (?)17 years in the same high school classroom she has never had a phone she can use to make outside calls. She can BE called (not directly, only via transfer from the school office), but the last we talked about it there were only 3 or 4 phones in the entire building that the teachers could use to call out. How primitive is that? So much for fostering contact with parents. I guess the District relies on teachers' using either e-mail or their own personal home or cell phones. Maybe this is related to another topic: How we support (or not) schools.
Snoresly —
I just wanted to start a thread related to the girls in gangs discussion that started right at the end of the program. What is in it for a girl to join a gang? I have met a number of girls who were tattooed with gang markings (the three dots on the hand, others also). I imagine they want to belong to something, too, even crave structure and rules just like other kids do. (If you don't think gangs have structure or rules, try breaking a rule, and find out there are consequences!) I feel worst for the girls who are pregnant with gang members' babies. How sad.
evebrasher —
While schools are on top of identifying and excluding gang activity, where are the programs to promote inclusivity and positive identity formation that target at-risk youth? What adjustments must be made to include them in positive (sports, theater, art) activities when the family is unable/unwilling to support them, particularly in middle school when they are most vulnerable to negative pressure and structuring themselves as different, for good or ill, from the dominent population?
opblistener —
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080302/NEWS/803020321/-1/NEWS03

Cut and paste the website above into your web browser if you would like more information about the young man who was briefly discussed around the 45th minute of the program. Based on that article, I assume that his family would want his story to be read by as many people as possible. While the program included wonderful discussion of larger gang-related issues, this paints a very moving individual portrait. I worked with this young man. He had a big heart and wanted to do the right thing. He fought his demons tooth and nail, but the culture of which he was a part outweighed his valiant attempts to change his life. My thoughts and prayers, and those of my colleagues who also were fortunate enough to be involved in the life of this wonderful young man, go out to his family and friends. To anyone who reads this and/or the article...PLEASE, DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO EFFECT SOCIAL CHANGE.
bensnider —
Hello, this is Mike Beagen, President of the NWGIA, and recent guest on OPB's Think Out Loud on this subject. If anyone would like to discuss anything from the show, or anything regarding gangs, you may contact me through our website: www.nwgia.com. I am happy to discuss any subject.
NWGangIA —

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