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One public opinion poll suggests 60 percent of Americans favor Arizona's new immigration law. A recent survey (pdf)* of people in the Northwest shows the region is in line with the rest of the country in their support for the law. The survey included 1200 people in Oregon, Washington and Idaho. Sixty-one percent of those surveyed said they supported the law and 84 percent of the Oregonians who supported the Arizona law said they would support similar legislation in their state.
Some city councils around the region have made their feelings on the Arizona law clear. Portland city commissioners voted unanimously last week to pass a resolution opposing the immigration law in Arizona. In Seattle, the city council voted to limit its business connections with Arizona. The city council in the coastal Washington town of Long Beach drafted a letter of support (pdf) for Arizona and their freedom to enforce state laws as they see fit.
How do you feel about the Arizona immigration law? Would you support or oppose a similar law here? Did you come to the U.S. from another country? Did someone close to you?
*The survey is a collaboration of the Northwest Health Foundation, the polling firm Davis, Hibbitts & Midghall, and Northwest public radio stations (including OPB).
Tagged as: immigration
Photo credit: NW OpinionScape
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You don't agree with the implementation of the law because of "wrongful stops" which are simply based on skin color, and yet at the same time you tell us that "in a fast food outlet, look in the back and see how many brown faces you see," because this will allegedly alerts us to all the 'illegals' that work there, and are stealing your job. Why would fast food restaurants hire illegal immigrants, when they could hire you? I do hope you find a job soon, because it is terribly stressful to be unemployed, but, currently, illegal immigrants are not the road block of your job search.
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I think we should formally abandon all pretense of having actual protected borders and citizenship and throw open the nation to any and all who wish to come here.
No visas or other formalities required just wade ashore or cross the border and you are a...whatever they wish to call themselves. The native born whites can just dig our holes a little deeper, furl our flag and beg for forgiveness and perhaps a few tortilla scraps from the table.
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If the guy that stole your car was reported by witnesses to be white, 6.6 in height and wearing a ragged coat, would it be racial profiling to stop all tall white guys in ragged coats driving cars that looked like yours?
I don't think so. I think it would be common sense and the efficient use of available resouces to NOT waste time talking to blacks and females and nicely dressed short people.
But then the tweedy idiots making public policy are determined to commit national suicide. So applying common sense and a modicum of INTELLIGENCE to the issue of an alien invasion is far beyond ol' Boobus' capacity to act in enlightened self interest.
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Penny, I know from my work and travels that 99.5% of the world's populations are what we term "racists" . Whites in the US and Western Europe have been brainwashed for fifty yrs into believing that a concern for one's own race was a sin about on a par with child murder. Well, we know what is happening in Europe from uncontrolled immigration. Each one of those countries is browning, becoming lawless and losing their national cultural identity.
But believe me the people pouring in to Western Europe and here from the LDCs, where I worked for so many years, are completely given over to the survival of the family clan, race and culture. They are hauling those attitudes with them.
The vast majority of these legal and illegal immigrants coming from overcrowded slaughterhouse nations think white Americans are so simple and imprudent that they deserve to lose their country. And we assuredly will, becase we haven't the common sense to see where uncontrolled immigration is taking us.
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Why would fast food restaurants hire illegal immigrants, when they could hire you? -- scottmil — Fri June 18th 11:19a.m.
For the same reason that farmers and landscaping companies hire people whose immigration status is debatable: they won't stand up for themselves if they are being treated unfairly, for fear of being deported (a call to the Bureau of Labor could be enough to trigger it, they believe).
(I knew it was just a matter of time before my comment drew a flame from scott -- I'm just surprised it was over three hours.)
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Penny, I rarely respond to your comments. Did you also foretell Gereng's response?
The employment practices of fast food restaurants are often better regulated and more transparent then farmers and landscapers. The fast food restaurants I have been to, seem to employee a mixture of people. This odd idea you propose regarding the reason fast food restaurants are not hiring you, really, and unfortunately, insults you. You could just chalk up your lack of employment to the economy, but instead you prefer the notion that immigrants (who you allege are illegal) can be treated unfairly, and that is preferable to an educated American (you) at the same pay. Either way it sounds like you don't win out.
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I do believe that the police have more than enough knowledge and experience to know when someone is illegal or not, and then use their expertise to enforce the law. I simply do not believe people will be pulled over for being brown. Especially in a place like Arizona where a large part of the community ( legal or not ) is of latino descent.
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I have a modest proposal for anyone concerned about illegal immigration. Why not pay a voluntary gratuity when you stay at a hotel, eat at a resturant or hire landscapers? If you paid an extra 10 or 20%, you could show employers that you are willing to pay the higher prices they would have to charge you if they hired more expensive native born American labor.
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The situation of illegal immigration is beyond hope. When the Federal govt is lodging a law suite against a state govt for enforcing Federal laws the Federal govt refuses to enforce, there is no possible way for the white majority to survive the comng human disaster descending on us.
YOU may not understand it, but I do. By the time Oregon's incredibly arrogant and naive intellectuals puzzle it out it will be too late to plug the dikes.
Where these people come from they don't bother voting out politicians, they simply shoot them and they EAT soft. and yummy intellectuals.
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i agree with gereng we should all just kill ourselves now to let our decomposing bodies gather an appropriate amount of spoilage so when the immigrants eat us, they will get stomach aches.
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This morning OPB chose to repeatedly feature the results of questions 15 & 16 of this survey: 61% of Oregonians support the Arizona immigration law. The problem with all polling like this is that the questions are asked outside of a real-world context.
The real-world question would be something like: "Oregon currently faces a half billon dollar budget shortfall. Given your support for implementing an Arizona-like law here, what tax increases or additional program budget cuts would you favor in order to pay for enforcing and administering such a law?"
Blareing out contextless poll results as news is journalistically fraught and can easily be taken as editorial advocacy. I expect better from OPB.
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In a Competitive World, we want Smart, Innovative Entrepreneurs who can create JOBS and BUSINESSES and help our economy.
The Canadians and Australians have had a progressive immigration policy for decades. They welcome the BEST from ALL OVER THE WORLD, not just let the local neighborhood spill over. They have Olympic Athletes that gave Gold Medals to Canada in the Track and Field Sprints(Ben Johnson from Jamaica.) Brilliant Computer Engineers, Biologists and Physicists who contribute to research and academics. Entrepreneurs who start resturants, cafes and stores.
The Canadians will give express citizenship to millionaire entrepreneurs who have at least $1 million cash, MUST start a business in Canada and EMPLOY at least 5 Canadians. And they pay taxes, get licenses, work hard, generate social benefits, and innovate.
Yes this prioritizes the rich, the educated, the innovators and the risk takers. But not everyone is equally ambitious. We NEED the AMBITIOUS, The ACHIEVERS and the CLEVER who RISK CAPITAL and work hard to build wealth. We NEED this RARE class of ENTREPRENEURS. We need small businesses. We need Jobs. We need Capital. We have less need for common laborers if we are to compete in an advanced world economy.
Maybe we can learn to let IMMIGRATION Policy become SOCIAL TOOL to help shape society and Improve our Economy.
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Mass immigration made economic and social sense when this was an essentially empty continent. It is no longer is empty. All recent migrations have accomplished is to dilute the world's most progressive and enlightened people...Europeans with people coming from the least progressive least civilized regions.
The majority of migrants are cming from central America and Mexico. Already at the time of my transfer to Bogota, Colombia in July 1977. The daily USIS translations of leading Spanish language newspapers-including Mexican- already carried daily editorials and opinion pieces urging Mexican peasants to march northward and reconquer the nation's lost territories from the "Gringos".
The Mexican Govt right from the mid 70s onward have viewed our unwillingness to enforce immigration laws as the best way to rid Mexico of its least productive, least educated Indian population.
American liberals-who remain clueless- have eagerly embraced the Mexican govt's strategy for dealing with its uneducated, and politically dangerous Indian population by doing all in its power to promote immigration, both legal and illegal.
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"All recent migrations have accomplished is to dilute the world's most progressive and enlightened people...Europeans with people coming from the least progressive least civilized regions."
Wow, a bit egocentric bordering on Bigotry--some would say rascist. Don't compete, Don't get better, Don't Learn. We are the pinacle of civilization. Surely No one Can Match or Surpass us.
It is this closed thinking that will lead us to peril. Hubris can defeat us as surely as an army.
And Gereng, Drive across this country. 95% of the land is unsettled or underpopulated or undeveloped or all three, particularly in the middle. Within Oregon itself, look at Central, Western and Southern Oregon...East of the Cascades, its just coyotes.
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jacob says "95% of the land is unsettled or underpopulated or undeveloped or all three".
A misperception at best.
If there were so much wide open space, we might as well release the bison.
Development including people inevitably takes water, among other resources. Do you think it's going to just fall from the sky? 8-)
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I quite agree with jacob that we should be selective on who we admit, based on projected benefit to USA.
If we decide we need more manuel laborers, we can easily find enough among people who are willing to enter legally.
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We have the EB2 visa program -- gives wealthy individuals a green card if they invest in a business in the US that employs a certain number of people. Wealthy individuals from Hong Kong, Japan, Saudi Arabia, the UK and other places have used this program to legally immigrate to the US. Not as progressive as Canada, but it's a start.
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Having now donned my flame suit, I will offer this: in my opinion the Arizona law was passed out of supreme frustration at the extreme drug/crime situation that characterizes "border wars." I believe that frustration to be working its way into the Pacific Northwest - the drug problem is at unprecedented levels, there are towns along I-5 from California to Canada that no "white folks" should ever EVER make a stop in - the crime statistics tell their own story, and all of it adds up to even more opportunity for home grown criminals to become even more profitable than they are. I will say this too that my resentment of the flood of illegals is as minor as being unhappy at being required to acquire a second language (Spanish) or remain unemployed - and spending hundreds on this effort, to having had a horse murdered, yes murdered by rat-poison-laced grain, by illegals who because at the time I was married to an attorney thought that I personally was going to ruin the drug smuggling operation they were running out of a stables in Washington with the full knowledge and complicity of the on-the-take owner of the stables. What I would like to see is EITHER close the borders with ruthless enforcement no matter what the skin color or throw open the borders and make them ALL TAXPAYERS.
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Sally forget it. We've lost "they" have won. The Jacobs of America have the money the power and the media on their side. The average American, resentful at what is taking place, are simply all bigots, and once that label is stuck on one, all arguments from that source lose their validity. Jacob has declared me a bigot.
The Jacobs own the country, the rest of us are just here to deal with whatever lands on our plates. If we complain we are ipso facto 'bigots'. That is it. Learn to live with it. The discussion ends when they- the media regulators and moderators - begin tossing about those words. But trust me, Sally, the ones filling up those dreadful empty places on our maps THEY will teach Jacob what REAL bigotry is, once they have the whip hand.
Your horse?? Why that horse was probably a bigotted animal and had eaten more than his fair share of the world's oats. The illegals were right in poisoning that animal. He was taking up space they want for their horses. That is, your horse, if you have any left, that becomes THEIR horse.
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To man of color:
My son a qualified aeronautical engineer who worked for several yrs in a beltway company of consulting engineers resigned about 7 yrs ago and went back to college for a MBA after his company began replacing senior American born engineers with Indian and oher immigrants coming in under the EB2 program ( if that is its designation) and working for less pay and benefits than native born Americans.
That company finally kept only a sufficient number of native born engineers to undertake military contracts involving citisens able to obtain security clearances. Every company in a position to do so is taking unfair advantage of the current immigration regulations. Those programs are rife with special deals and permitted violations. All professionals working in the affected fields know this very well.
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The problem with Arizona's law is, at face value, it is hard to disagree with much of it 'technically.' Even if you disagree with some of the motivation, or perhaps the majority of the motivation, in a country based on laws, well, how can you not enforce them? America has overlooked illegal immigration, because it often suited the marketplace. And, even sometimes (I'd like to think) for commonsense and empathy! But, now, things are tight and the empathy is waning, and much of the market for the use of illegal immigrants has dried up, and they have been made redundant. We should have done the difficult task of working through immigration reform a long time ago, we should have been explicit in our intentions, for their sake and ours. Now many are at the boiling point, and it is hard to parse the anger and xenophobia from the practical concerns.
For every story of an illegal immigrant doing something illegal, there is a story about an illegal immigrant working hard and responsibly, to exist like the rest of us. At any rate, we have created the market for illegal immigrants, if they are allegedly responsible for all the drug dealing, then we have provided the clients. If they are stealing our jobs, then we are hiring them. We can't talk collectively about a group, when we choose to ignore our own role, our market's role and our citizen's role. You may say, well, those American citizens don't represent all of us---well, exactly!, and, every illegal immigrant is also not a degenerate animal, they are a diverse group. Even if statistics show illegal immigrants are prone to criminal activity, undereducated, etc., they, like most of us, are often a product of circumstance.
As much as I oppose the law, because I perceive a good amount of its support comes from an appalling and disingenuous motivation, the way to combat the law is through a solution: passing national immigration reform and enforcing it equitably.
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ScottMil
It was immigration reform in 1964-65 that has put us in the soup. As Ted Kennedy and Jacob Javits, YOUR liberal idea of immigration reform is to fling open the doors even wider, give amnesty to law breakers already here and thus encourage even more invaders.
Do you think current immigration laws are being observed by the tens of thousands crossing that southern border every month? No? Yes? Is our own Govt enforcing the laws presently on the books? NO!
Then on what basis do you assert that all we need is another immigration reform act? How will expanding the number of Spanish speaking, mainly Mexican Indians, make this A better place to live? They haven't done much in Mexico except make it in to a place everyone wants to escape. Maybe you have spent much time there.
Why do you suppose their own Govt is encouraging them to come north?? It is to be rid of them. If you can't understand that, I feel sorry for this country, as YOU have the loud speaker.
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Gereng,
Don't speak about my ideas, unless you can base it on something I have actually said, and not some Miss Cleo like speculation. Because you certainly don't know me, and outside of this forum, I would never enter into a conversation with you. Actually, let me be explicit, I don't like you. Your comments on this page are indeed bigoted, by every reasonable definition of the word, and even every loose definition of the word. The reason people have put up with them, is because they are polite and don't want to engage in a barbaric dialogue. Not only are your comments bigoted, but they are contradictory. Your comments are not even slick bigotry, or bigotry in disguise, they are gutter-ball nonsense---and, you can't even hit your own targets! The only disguise is the one over your own eyes, because you are apparently unwilling to come forth and say "I am a bigot"---to stake a claim on something you actually own (unlike this country).
I am not willing to tolerate the intolerant, yes, you!
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I sympathize with Arizonans, but their law is not the proper tool, is likely unConstitutional, and will inevitably lead to profiling.
The better approach, imho, would be to strictly enforce the laws that are already on the books - going after the employers who illegally employ illegal immigrants.
National immigration reform is needed YESTERDAY if not sooner: providing a pathway to legal residence for people 'already here and situated,' and providing for reasonable immigration statutes for others.
Illegal immigrants are NOT 'stealing our jobs.' How disingenuous it is to even suggest that. More often, they are simply taking the jobs that 'we' are too proud to take. By the way, I'm a 59 yo white guy, just fyi.
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59 and so out of of touch with global reality and history that they can not comprehend the concept of nationhood, citizenship, pride of race and accompishment? Not even the idea of protecting their place at the table? Don't you read the newspapers? Can't you understand what the same immigration policies have done to Europe? Just why all the OBVIOUS self hatred in this country? It is thinly disguised, of course, as humane liberalism. But it amounts to the same thing, race suicide. Here and in Europe. AND it's NOT about who picks the tomatos or mows your lawn the cheapest.
What the hxll do you people think wars are fought about? All the Japanese wanted was our territory; all the Germans wanted was some living space and resouces. Do you have any idea at all how your English speaking, WHITE grandchildren will be treated once the invaders are in control? They are not coming here to be good little English speaking Gringos. They are coming here to TAKE what the Gringos have created. God knows they have made an unlivable hash-up of their own countries.
Perhaps you may have missed this, but whites are not loved by the invaders. 200 years of the USA lording it over Latin America and putting into power and protecting a long series of hated dictators, overthrowing the kindly, and ever popular Marxists have left the peasants (presently invading us) with a deep and abiding hatred of white Americanos.
Like Uriah Heep the invaders will meekly tolerate us until they are in a position to dictate the terms of the relationship.
The invading Mexicans are getting what the Japanese wanted in 1941, and like the Japanese in Manchuko and Korea our newest invaders are making us learn their language so as to be accommodated with less discomfort on their side. They don't even have to use force. We are so silly and weak-willed we are learning the invader's language volunatarily as if it were a good and noble undertaking. Am I wrong in thinking that there is a Darwinian dynamic in play among white native born Americans? Something about the less fit, the enfeebled giving way to a more vital and cunning race?
Sweet Jesus, I'm dealing with little children here.
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I am a laid off to part time employee of 15 years of full time guy. I am working all I can to provide for my family. I have applied at numerous places where I know for a fact illegals are working. I never got a call back. This idea that "we" are to proud to do any job to support our families is simply wrong. I'm tired of hearing it. I can only guess people who thing this must be very lazy and think the only job for them is behind a desk. Yes, many times illegals are stealing our jobs. Or at the very least lowering wages/benefits/safety for all.
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Arizonans' are a vile bunch! They're also a pack of whiners seeking out scape-goats.One undiscussed reality of life in "the desert" is that Arizonans remain mired in an economic calamity of their own making, that being the collapse of their residential and commercial real estate markets and the various industries that support them. AZ is among the state's hardest hit by this manifold collapse, topping even CA, NV and/or FL in numerous statistical categories.
One such measure that AZ tops, second only to CA, is percentage of home-owner's "upside down" owing more to their creditors than the value of the home - a percentage that's presently north of 50%. Adding to AZ's economic pain and inability to right its ship-of-state is the nation's 3rd worst foreclosure and delinquncy rate (floating between 16-20%). Furthermore, AZ's commercial RE market is the prophetic "2" in a "1, 2"-punch combo. Vacant CRE space in some of the most desirable and commercially dense areas of AZ top 25%, with another 25% "doomed to foreclosure".
In short, Arizona, like Nevada, tempted new and existing residents to build a new dream in the desert - all wrapped in the rhetoric and symbology of "entrepreneurialism and personal growth" common to both new-aged infomercials and age-old property scams. Given the state's history of enmity toward government, it's no surprise that the complete lack of local oversight and/or regulations aided both the ascent and collapse of the state's and state's residents' finances.
Sadly, another "age-old" reaction indulged by an "aggrieved" majority is to demonize minorities, "others" & outsiders (a.k.a. the government in AZ's Goldwater-inspired lexicon) instead of facing the fact of their own failures and failed world-view.
Oregonians who see wisdom enough in Arizona's actions to mimic them share in the same short-sighted, close-minded, morally bankrupt ideology and are similarly blind to the obvious, unavoidable and self-induced economic injuries that result from such folly.
Then there's the all-too-obvious racism that, as history has shown us time and again, is the poisonous well that irrigates irrational fury.
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My first contribution:
As enforcement of our nation’s immigration laws are selectively ignored from community to community – must the nation fund a parallel federal police force equal to our city, county and state agencies – or simply require them to uphold those laws at a fraction the cost?
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My first contribution:
As enforcement of our nation’s immigration laws are selectively ignored from community to community – must the nation fund a parallel federal police force equal to our city, county and state agencies – or simply require those agencies to uphold our laws at a fraction the cost?
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I applaud OPB for reporting the facts, it’s about time…
Regarding the poll, what if Oregonian’s had been asked: “considering the high level and predicted on-going statewide unemployment, are you willing to allow local, county and state law enforcement agencies to help reduce the illegal competition for local jobs by helping enforce our nation’s immigration laws?”
Coordinating law enforcement agencies at the national, state, county and city level shouldn’t be all that expensive; they do it for illegal drugs on a daily basis.
Those who were once migrants have become illegal immigrants – two seriously different situations. A well regulated program for migrant workers may be beneficial to Oregon; a growing illegal underground isn’t.
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Kris Kobach on Talk of the Nation pointed out two overlooked aspects of the law:
1) the check has to be in the course of legal contact; a traffic stop, say.
2) an Arizona drivers license (or any id that requires proof of legal residence for issuance) is sufficient, no other papers needed.
I've been stopped several times over the years and every time I was expected to provide valid id (I would have been hauled in if I had not had it or refused). Which one of you thinks that if a cop asks for id you shouldn't have it for him/her to check? Those of you who have traveled overseas know that if you don't have your papers (usually passport/visas) when ANY government official asks for them, you're in trouble. Remember, they also expect proper papers from their own citizens.
What federal laws are the state and local police not supposed to enforce or even ask questions about? Kidnapping across state lines? Bank robbery? Terrorism? Why is legal status exempt?
Maybe the simple answer is require ALL state issued id from EVERY state only be issued to a person who is legally here (by birth or legal immigration); this solves any issue about profiling. The law should be simple: if you have state issued id or appropriate passport/visas when the cop asks, no problem; if you don't, the law should be that everyone (no matter what you look like) can expect to be hauled in, fingerprinted, and checked on (not only for immigration status, but outstanding warrants, terrorist watch lists, etc.). Is that fair enough?
We need to establish a fair but comprehensive legal norm before considering either securing the border or passing anything pretending to be comprehensive immigration reform.
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If we are serious about illegal taking gov resources , we should then put in place laws to require prove of citizen in order to get gov services, or other laws with fair intend. The Arizona law, in my view, is an excuse to use the law to target a particular population, Hispanic, and divide our communities. I am born in USA and I feel American . My kids are American , and I do not want them to be treated as 2nd class citizen just because their Hispanic heritage
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There are only two possible results of an illegal immigrant taking a job in the US. 1) It takes a job from someone not here illegally, or 2) it takes a job that would go unfilled, either a) from lack of willingness of non-illegals to take it or b) from lack of willingness to create the job in the first place by someone with capital, knowing they won't have a worker to fill it.
All jobs held by illegal immigrants fall into one of the above categories. While obvious it needs to be said, because unless these unarguable premises are acknowledged arguments that follow are just noise.
If #1 is true then, well, that's why people are upset.
If either case of #2 is true then examination of the “why” is in order. The truth is easy: if no one is willing to take a job then by definition that job is not worth doing. The variable in that is the “wage” – take that as shorthand for everything that makes up the benefits of a job, including such things as safety, prestige, fulfillment, etc. Willingness to take a job, the determination of whether or not it is worth doing is, of course, directly linked to the wage one draws for doing it. The idea that “there are jobs American's won't take” is hogwash – there are employers that do not pay the wage required to get non-illegals to take them, nothing else.
And that's that. All the “complexity” around the subject of illegal immigrants and jobs is merely obfuscation of the truth.
Note that the truth doesn't care about the morality of open or closed borders, of criteria used to be here in the states, the impacts on families, the quality of life of the beneficiaries of cheap labor, the vitality the US has experienced as a direct result of having a history of easy immigration, or anything else. All of these and more are real issues to be addressed. But lying about the fundamental truth about jobs and illegal immigrants poisons all that follows, and makes it impossible to have an honest discussion.
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I am curious who they polled to find that 60%, and as was pointed out in this discussion, what questions they asked. This discussion seems to be centered on jobs and crime, which I understand is motivating, at least in part, the new law in Arizona. But, what it comes down to is an issue of race. There is no way to tell someone's immigration status by the color of their skin or by their accent. There is just no way to do it. So, how could any law like this be anything but racial/ethnic profiling? Does every citizen in the US, including the "white folks," need to get a passport to show that they are a US citizen? Do we want to live in this sort of police state? What about the reality that there are probably more illegally working Canadians in the US than any other nationality? (This is not meant to inflame Canadians, just point out that most US employers don't think that Canadians need any additional work authorization, though they do). I do not have any easy answers to the difficulties that we are facing, but I am sure that states taking on immigration duties in this way is not going to solve the problems, but instead create many new, more challenging ones.
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“Illegal Aliens” are “Illegal” first and “Aliens or non citizens” second. Everything else is pointless until these first two issues are resolved.
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There are existing immigration laws in every state. The only problem is in the lack of enforcement of such laws. If the employers who use low wage immigrant labor are treated with accordance to the existing laws, we will not have an illegal immigrant issue. Expose those employers, treat them according to the existing law and we will begin to solve this issue.
The other culprits are the drug lords from south america who are legally allowed to purchase their U.S. citizenship. These folks in return rake in large sums of money to smuggle the poor folks across the border. The errand employers and the drug lords are the problem. However, for political and money reasons, we like to shift the blame on everyone else other than those who repetedly violate the existng laws. This is why money & politics is the root of all evil.
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Actually, immigration laws are primarily federal laws. That AZ passed a novel supplementary law enforcing the federal law is why we are having this discussion.
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My wife and I have decided to move to Mexico. Since you are so worried about the rights of illegals would you please ask president Calderon and fix a few things for us.
1. We don't want to show any documentation when we arrive.
2. Please make sure the Mexican police learn English before we get there. We want to be able to sue the police for asking for our papers.
3. We would like all government posted signs to be in English as well as Spanish.
4. Our children only speak English and we want them to be taught by English speaking teachers at their new public school in Mexico.
5. We want free quality health care without being arrested if we don't pay,(with English speaking doctors) free school, free lunch food stamps,
6. We don't want to pay taxes in Mexico.
7. We want English speaking politicians to fight for our rights, and want to protest the government without getting our heads bashed in by the police.
We think this is only fair since it is the same thing you do for Mexican illegal immigrants here. -
8. please pay me next to nothing for landscaping services and also may i clean your hotel rooms please
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Many seasonal employers, i.e. farmers, say that they can't get enough legal people to work in their fields for the price they can afford to pay. Well I certainly don't mind paying more for my produce if it means the people picking it from the fields are legal and paid properly. I also don't mind paying a few cents more for a burger so the workers are legal. I feel one of the major problems with the current economy is wages too low to sustain a proper life and support a household. The minimum wage should be at least $10 an hour. I feel this would solve most of uor economic problems today. I do support making certain illegals can not work in the U.S.
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Illegal immigrants can not apply for unemployment or food stamps or any kind of welfare help. That is a misconception. They do declare and pay taxes and add to the social security pot, that can not access later on. What jobs are they taking, picking strawberries? potatoes? shuck oysters?
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I personally know a young illeagal male who recieves Oregon Trail and Oregon Health Plan. When I asked him why he gets these he told me "they just give it to you if your illegal". I work in healthcare and I can tell you from experience that illegal's go stright from the welfare office to the ER with their brand new OHP paperwork. You are flat out wrong that they cannot get welfare.
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There is a thriving business just across the so-called national borders, in Mexico, where any US driver's license, passport, birth certificate, grade school record, etc. can be counterfeited using technology good enough to fool 90% of US employers. As self employed independent contractors I don't think the prime contrator even asks about SS numbers. For every test or barrier the state puts into use, the crafty Mexicans counterfeit a counter.
They WANT our jobs and country which they have been brought up to believe was stolen from them by the Americans. It is called a reconquest in Mexico.
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(1) -- Anti-foreigner sentiment always skyrockets in economic hard times. In some countries, it skyrockets after natural disasters, as well.
(2) -- Arizona shootings and crimes come from drug runners, not from illegals already in the country. The law will not address crime.
(3) -- China is not a shining example of the kind of country or society we Americans should aspire to become.
(4) -- Being stopped for being white in China, or as I was, for being white in Japan, starts to be no fun after a while. Many legitimate American citiziens will be targeted by the Arizona law. They will suffer harassment and discrimination.
(5) -- Laws change. Laws are not always right. We don't need to toughen enforcement of dumb laws.
(6) -- Illegals pay taxes, but do not receive social security.
(7) -- Illegals are here because businesses want them, and the government knows that our food prices would skyrocket if we clamped down hard. They form a convenient low-paid labor pool that can be abused if need be for the better-off of us to reap the benefits. Want to toughen up? Go after the businesses, not the illegals.
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(5) -- Laws change. Laws are not always right. We don't need to toughen enforcement of dumb laws. -- rain2fall — Tue June 22nd 9:18a.m.
And yet, there are still some outdated laws on the books:
* Seattle residents may not carry concealed weapons longer than six feet. (Still on the books!)
*Virginia: There is a state law prohibiting corrupt practices of bribery by any person other than candidates.
*Wisconsin: It is illegal to cut a woman's hair.
* In New Orleans, fire trucks are required by law to stop at all red lights.
*California: It is a misdemeanor to shoot any kind of game from a moving vehicle, unless the target is a whale.
*It is illegal to cry on the witness stand in Los Angeles courts.
*In Quitman, Georgia, it is illegal for a chicken to cross a road.
(And yes, these ALL STILL ON THE BOOKS!)
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I have been studying the immigration issue for many years, am writing a book on the morality of immigration controls, and used to work as a paralegal on immigration cases. I believe the American people need to step back and consider whether restricting immigration is moral to begin with. There are several strong arguments which support the idea that restricting immigration is in fact immoral. One of those, put forth by R. George Wright of Indiana University, is that most U.S. citizens' status as citizens is undeserved, as is the status of those who do not have U.S. citizenship. Most of us have citizenship solely because we were born in the U.S. or had U.S. citizen parents. Similarly, people who don't have citizenship simply were born outside the U.S. and don't have U.S. citizen parents. The good fortune of having been born in the U.S. is unearned and undeserved, as is the misfortune of having been born abroad. Therefore, native-born citizens are no more entitled to be in this country than anyone else. The Arizona law adds another layer of suffering for those who undeservedly are prohibited from living in the U.S.
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WOW! seriously. With twisted thinking like this we are ALL doomed. This country seems to have lost all common sense. I'll vote for anything like Arizonas law to come up in my state.
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Did your employer have you present documents and sign an I-9?
No? Your employer is a lawbreaker.
Since 1986 this has been the law: an employer must verify eligibility to work in this country. (Google I-9)
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I am opposed to the Arizona law and think it should be repealed. I am trying to get through over the phone and have been unable. Please call me at 503-501-6411 so I can share my thoughts over the air.
I am an elementary school teacher in a Dual Immersion Spanish/ English program. I work with Latino and Anglo families through my work and have had nothing but positive experiences with Latino families, those here legally and those her without documentation. Those who do not have papers I find to be extremely hard-working, TAX-PAYING, and unable to benefit from all the services their tax dollars go to funding. Students whose parents are here illegally are not able to obtain federal loans for college (I support the passage of the DREAM act) and these children often do not have health insurance, regardless of their American citizenship. Families without documentation, I find, are here to make an honest living and provide their children with a better education than they have access to in their home country. They are MORE involved and supportive, in my experience, than their American citizen counterparts. These families provide a cultural richness and model of citizenship, based on family unity, hard work, and dedication to education.
I believe I am in fact, in the majority of Northwest opinion and am highly suspicious of the results of the poll you are quoting.
Thank you, Jessica Firestone
503-501-6411
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immigration is the life blood of the country. Its what makes this country better than any other in the world. I want immigration from all over the world to come here. We need the new ways of thinking and culture so this great nation keeps improving instead of stagnates. That said it must be legal immigration of people who want to become Americans, culturally and legally. This law simply is not illigal but an enforcement of current laws. All illegals should be sent back to there country of origin and reapply legally. I want you here! LEGALLY!
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When I was in China last year I had to register at the local police station in every town we stayed in. If you fail to register they throw you out of the country.
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Are you insinuating that the US abadon our core value for those of China?
Do you, for example, want more than 1 child?
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wphurley - Um..no. My point was that most countries require you to prove that you are in the country legally. The fact that the US wants to start a similar process shouldn't be such a big problem.
Anyh other words or ideas you want to stick in my mouth?
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I lived and worked in 13 countries EVERY SINGLE ONE required foreigners to hold a valid work permit and resident's visa. Usually these had to be renewed every 6 months or or in some cases every three months. I know of no nation anywhere (outside western Europe) that is as lax as our own in regard to foreigners. China and Japan's laws are the norm NOT the exception.
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The caller Lisa nailed it. So many chumps focusing on those below them while the banksters steal billions.
Of course if there really was a desire to solve the flow of undocumented workers, the solution is to enforce the laws that already exist for employers. Hmm, I wonder why that never happens.
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Based on reading the comments here it might be useful to scale things back. To get away from the trap of discussing the specifics and technicalities, and discuss immigration itself, as an idea. 'Experience' might make for an entertaining show, but I don't see how it changes things, or really makes people think about the issue, not just which side of it they are on. How can we get anywhere or change anything if we are not thinking?
We should be thinking about what immigration is exactly. What it means for a country to claim a land as theirs? Who are the people making the claim? Do they have a right to this claim? How long does this claim last? What it means to be a nation? What use does nationalism have? How do race and culture play a role in nationalism? Should they play a role? What will change as the country's diversity changes? Can a country retain a culture, an individuality, when it is made up of many cultures? On an even more basic level---what would happen practically if we increased immigration? Why are people afraid of immigration? What kind of crime is illegal immigration? How does it rate, compared to other crimes? What does it mean to break a law to enter a country, if you are possibly only seeking a better life? What validity does that law have? I think we are just beginning at the end with this discussion, hearing what everyone already thinks----I am not sure how helpful that is. Maybe I am delusional in thinking that a more conceptual discussion might be useful, but I feel like it would help....
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Many illegal immigrants pay taxes. They have legitimate jobs and pay taxes for services they will never be able to use. A friend of mine's son is 17 yrs old and has lived here since he was one yrs old. He went to school here and is American by any standards, yet he cannot gain citizenship. What about these people?
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Yes he can "gain" citizenship. There is a process for this to happen. It takes time and effort though. However I have no issue with naturalizing children that were ilegally brought into this country by their parents, obviously the children had no choice.
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The paperwork required to get a work visa in Japan (and I am sure in most other countries) is significant. We were expected to get ID cards and carry them. My card also served as my ID for medical services. It could also have been on the same card as my drivers license if I had converted my license.
The police were not unreasonable about it. Shortly after arriving in Japan, I was stopped while riding my bike for exercise and did not have my card nor passport. The cop asked me questions which were easy for me to answer even in my rusty Japanese. (Where do you live? You're not a tourist? Where do you work? Which office? Please bring your passport and show us sometime.)
Getting in line, filling out the application, and carrying a card is NOT too much to ask of an immigrant.
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Nor is expecting them to be functional in English, for the many occasions when they need to interact with their potential employers, the police, the staff at any social services office they may seek services from, or the hospital...or, for that matter, when they try to talk to someone who never expected that they would have to learn to be bilingual in a country where English is the dominant, (though never designated as official), language.
Mind, I'm not asking that they abandon their native language or other cultural traits (such as their cuisine or religion); indeed many of our immigrant ancestors came here not speaking English (Italians, Germans, for examples) but they learned out of necessity.
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In their attempt for smaller government, the Reagon administration eliminated the annual reporting requirement for aliens. This program was a much more efficient way of tracking legal aliens and would have been much better at discerning legality, rather than implementing laws like Arizona has enacted. It is ridiculous that instead of managing the immigration process in a proactive manner, we are doing it from the backend.
Marian
Forest Grove
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It is true that illegal immigrants are willing to do work for cheaper pay than most Americans... But right now, on the show no one has talked about how the average American benefits from the cheap illegal immigrant labor producing cheap products. These products include cheaper hotel rooms and cheaper agricultural products. I grew up in the Napa Valley in California and if there was a serious crack down on illigal immigrant work in that valley the booming wine business that brings so much tourism and money would collapse. We all like to talk about how illigal immigrants are taking jobs and using services that they don't pay for, but I think that the benefits that we recieve from their cheap labor are more valuable.
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Illegal immigration benefits no one. The aliens have no rights, some benefits and a poor quality of life. The tax payers pay for benefits for aliens, loose benefits for our own citizens. This is not a racial issue, its not a job placement issue (citizens would do these jobs and having legal immigrants with rights would force the issue of workers rights in some of the worst, most unhealthy jobs) this is a human rights and economic issue. Illegal aliens here are NOT treated well.
We have laws that we need to enforce already in place. We need action, not more laws. We need enforcement of requiring papers and deporting anyone who is here illegally. Checking papers is something that almost every other country does this. Why do Americans think this is so wrong? How else will we check immigration status?
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lol u said loose
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This IS a racial issue! If it were white people, there would not be this level of upset. Illegal immigrants are not entitled to benefits that taxpayers provide. The fields would not be harvested if it weren't for hardworking immigrants. We can no longer rely on our spoiled youth or lazy citizens who would not even do this work for $30 per hour. You never see Hispanic people with a sign on the corners.
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annykan you miss my point - Americans do benefit from illegal immigrants, even if we do not want to admit it. Someone needs to balance the costs of illegal immigrants with the cost savings from the cheaper produced goods that many Americans buy.
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What will all this mean for the US tourist industry? I am a legal immigrant - when my family visit, will they have to take their passports with them when they walk to the supermarket just in case they get pulled over for looking foreign? Is that the kind of country we want to live in?
It seems that people's main issue is about illegal workers - why not enforce the law at the businesses that are employing illegal immigrants? That would mean that legal immigrants who happen to not have white skin wouldn't feel as persecuted and would certainly look less xenophobic to the rest of the world.
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My Father Manolo came to the U.S legally, I am a first generation Legal American born in Maryland and am very proud of this. My Father says he is hispanic by birth American by choice. My Father and I and ALL of our Family will be more then happy to show this pride by carring any documentation nessary. Take me in I am proud to do so.
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Newsweek ran a beautiful article a couple of weeks ago looking at the NUMBERS(not emotions!). In the next few years due largely to a dramatically falling birth rate in Mexico (it's now similar to ours) the actual numbers of people immigrating will fall so low in comparison to the actual number of jobs available that people in Arizona will be begging for the Mexican workers who fill all of their domestic positions now!
Look at the NUMBERS and wonder WHY we have these discussions--is the American citizenry so naive that we don't look at what is really happening?
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That idea that Americans are not willing to some jobs is a canard.
The reality is that the Cheap-labor Conservative employers are not willing to pay American workers a decent wage and they lobby constantly to undercut American wages and allow cheap foreign laborers to take away American jobs.
If the borders were closed, the Cheap-Labor Conservative employers would have to pay American workers a decent wage, do the job themselves, or not do the job at all.
If you can't pay American workers to work farm crops, you should not grow those crops. If you can't pay American workers to work fast food or clean motel and hotel rooms you should not sell fast food or rent out hotel or motel rooms.
Cheap-Labor Conservative employers are the problem, not American workers.
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Yes you are probably right - but ask Americans if they still want the dollar menu at McDonalds..... It would not be there if it cost more to pick tomatoes.
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Yes you are probably right - but ask Americans if they still want the dollar menu at McDonalds..... It would not be there if it cost more to pick tomatoes. -- ILoveOregon — Tue June 22nd 9:53a.m.
So what does McDonalds offer on their dollar menu that includes tomatoes?
ANSWER: Nothing! The Big 'N Tasty is the 'smallest' sandwich that includes tomatoes at no additional charge; the large chicken sandwiches include tomatoes, and certain of the Angus burgers come with tomatoes...any other menu item, tomatoes are an additional 30 to 45 cents, depending on the Franchisee.
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In Oregon, it's not illegal immegrants taking our jobs, it's people from Washington State. My workplace in Portland has about 160 people... at least 70 of them live in Washington. If we want to keep Oregonians working, we should look a little closer to home for a nice ripe scapegoat.
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Should there be lobbies for illegals trying to get into this country for a better life? Shouldn't the lobbies and energy be directed against the government of Mexico? They are responsible to their residents to provide an environment where they can prosper and WANT to live. If the Mexican gov't can't do it, they should ask for international help, and this is maybe where we should be involved. The country of Mexico has vast quantities of natural resources, agriculture, etc. They should not be a third world country.
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Throughout our history immigrant minorities have been used as scapegoats to blame our social problems on. The truth of the matter is these problems are cultural. We have done little to protect workers rights. We do not target employers who choose to exploit these immigrants. Not only are immigrants paid less, but statistically Mexican-Americans are paid less for skilled labor.
No matter how hard we try, we will not stop these people from fleeing their desolation. The only thing we can do is take responsibility for the devastation we have waged on Mexico. Our drug policy keeps the drug cartels in power, and NAFTA has raged economic devestation on the people.
We can solve these issues or we can just wait till the next immigration migration. Seriously, it wasn't the Irish, Italians, Chinese, Japanese, and certianly isn't going to be the Mexicans. The problems lie in our inablility to act as a nation. We always want someone else to blame.
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People with money have taken advantage of immigrant laborers throughout history. Black slaves were used at plantations, Irish workers were used in early manufacturing and mining operations, Chinese workers were imported to build railroads, and Hispanic workers were brought in to work our agricultural operations. I am a person of color and not Hispanic, but I refuse to visit Arizona while that law is in effect, and am so disappointed that Oregonians would even consider a law in which I would have to carry around all of my documentation--especially since I have been a citizen since birth.
I have never seen a Hispanic on the corner begging for unearned funding.
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Gee, I was born here in America and I carry around my government issued ID everyday. It hasn't proven to be a burden of any kind. I am not sure why you would think this is some great imposition.
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"...Irish workers were used in early manufacturing and mining operations, Chinese workers were imported to build railroads..." -- amocolor — Tue June 22nd 9:46a.m.
Don't forget the Irish immigrants who built the westbound portion of the Transcontinental Rail Road...the Chinese mainly worked on the eastbound portion.
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A major reason that people want to come to the US is that American Corporations have corrupted the governments of their home nations and made it un-livable.
Let's clean up our Corporations.
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Hypocrisy, racism, and greed. This is a country of immigrants with a population that takes every available opportunity to preach about its Christian values. My question for all non Native Americans and non-atheists is what makes you think that God cares more about you and your needs than he does for human beings who happened to have born elsewhere? How do immigration conservatives reconcile this essential conflict Sunday morning in Church? Are we all children of God, are we all one human family or are we not?
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I take a hard line on this issue. If it were up to me, everybody would be sent to their country of origin if they do not have proper documentation to live in this country.
Now, I understand that option is not a feasible option because of so many special situations.
I support AZ, and never in my life have I wanted to travel there but now I do because I feel their actions are being demonized in the media.
I would completely support a law of this style coming to Oregon.
I do not believe that anybody in the federal government has the fortitude to truly create, pass and enforce serious immigration reform. That leaves the states to fend for themselves.
It is a difficult issue, but ultimately I feel the people that came here with out permission should have to deal with the ramifications of their choices. If I break our laws I suffer, the same rules should apply.
NaTasha
Portland, OR
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History repeats itself. Lessons from Nazi Germany.
The xenophobic and racist attitudes that prevailed in Germany after the collapse of its economy in the late 1920s led directly to the rise of the Third Reich and Adolph Hitler.
As a man of color living in an overwhelmingly white state, I have seen an enormous upswelling in xenophobia and white supremist attitudes in the US, and Oregon, starting with the election of former President Bush, attitudes which are now more vocal with our first president of color.
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The point that I cannot get past is the fact that the first action of illegal immigrants is breaking the law. There is an immigration law, they are aware of that, and are willingly doing something illegal. Why assume that they would respect all other laws? It has been stated that they come to get money, when they come illegally, how is that not stealing?
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Our economy has been drastically affected by the droves of illegals flooding into our country! Our infrastructure has been folding in on itself through skyrocketing medical costs including 'through-the-roof' insurance premiums. Education is becoming a source of contention as well. Our state-run universities are practically soliciting for illegals to attend their schools with special grants and financing when legal citizens are forced to pay higher tuition fees, which, for many becomes an "unattainable" dream.
We all would like a better life. But there are immigration laws in place that should be adhered to in order to minimize the effect on our infrastructure! I totally agree with Arizona's steps to enforce the laws already on the books!
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That's a howler that Republicans are for immigration reform, because they're the ones who benefit from bringing in cheap foreign labor to undercut the wages of American workers.
Sheesh!
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Totally agree and even another laugh that the Liberal politicians support them by condoning illegal activity’s.
Sheesh -
I do not find anything wrong with rewarding hard workers who do a good job. Yes, there are some Americans who could benefit from these jobs that immigrants do, but they would cost more and their work would many times not be as hard or good as the immigrant workers. What is wrong with rewarding the best worker with a job and pay? And everyone benefits from their work: the business owner (who is American), the consumer (who is American), and the workers.
Most of these immigrants came from dirt poor poverty and violent-prone areas in Mexico. They came seeking work, without entitlement. They get work based on how hard they work and how good their work is... not out of a sense of entitlement because of where they were born. It is the American Dream: come with only the clothes on your back and take advantage of the opportunities to work freely and without prejudice. If you do so, you will make it. What is the problem????
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I understand the problem of American unemployment and needs of laid-off American workers, but getting rid of all the illegal immigrants will not solve the problem of American unemployment. For decades, Latino immigrants have been the scapegoat for American unemployment, especially in times of recession (remember "Operation Wetback" in the 1950s???). But they are usually blamed out of anger at the state of the economy, not fact and reason. Immigrants contribute to the health and vitality of the economy by paying taxes, buying consumer goods, and keeping the overhead costs of business low, which allows the business to keep the quality of their goods high, while keeping the prices low, and increase their investment in their product and the local economy (especially in a recession, it is important businesses have every ability to do this... it helps the consumers and community members stay afloat during tough times). If you got rid of all the immigrants, the cost of doing business would go up, the revenue coming into state and federal coffers would go down (reducing govt service budgets, which would increase lay-offs in govt job areas like roads, highway, police, healthcare, etc.), and consumption of goods would go down (not only because there are less immigrants buying goods, but because there are less Americans buying goods because the cost of those goods and services are going up). All Americans would be hurt by getting rid of illegal immigrants, from the grocery store to the government. The absolute WRONG thing to do for our economy, especially in a recession, is get rid of the high quality, cheap workforce.
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I also believe there are cultural factors at play here in the immigration debate, just as there has always been since the founding of our country. Illegal immigrants look different, sound different, eat different, take care of their homes different, etc. There is a fear factor that exists in many Americans' minds. They believe there are "too many" illegal immigrants, and their "overbearing" presence will cause ripple effects in American culture, wherein we might be forced to become bilingual (gasp!) and learn more about Latino heritage and hang two flags in our yards, one American and one Mexican. Americans, just like most people in this world, do not like change. But change is inevitable and good for us as a country. The more we resist it, the more our economy will stagnate because the best ideas and people are not being rewarded due to the way they look. Our economy will flourish the best when everyone has a chance to compete and put forth their work and ideas. Let the best work and/or idea win. If we start putting qualifiers on whose work or whose ideas we will consider, our economy will suffer as a result. This is the logic of capitalism... I thought we were a capitalist country.
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I also believe there are cultural factors at play here in the immigration debate, just as there has always been since the founding of our country. Illegal immigrants look different, sound different, eat different, take care of their homes different, etc. There is a fear factor that exists in many Americans' minds. They believe there are "too many" illegal immigrants, and their "overbearing" presence will cause ripple effects in American culture, wherein we might be forced to become bilingual (gasp!) and learn more about Latino heritage and hang two flags in our yards, one American and one Mexican. Americans, just like most people in this world, do not like change. But change is inevitable and good for us as a country. The more we resist it, the more our economy will stagnate because the best ideas and people are not being rewarded due to the way they look. Our economy will flourish the best when everyone has a chance to compete and put forth their work and ideas. Let the best work and/or idea win. If we start putting qualifiers on whose work or whose ideas we will consider, our economy will suffer as a result. This is the logic of capitalism... I thought we were a capitalist country.
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Just as the fear of Irish & Polish immigrants plagued us in the 1800s and now does not exist, this current cultural fear of Latinos will pass as well. You don't see any cultural expectations in this country that we speak Polish, German, or Italian simply because there was a huge wave of these immigrants in the 1800s (in proportion, a larger wave than what we are seeing right now from Latin America), do you? You don't see Irish flags hung alongside American flags in people's yards, do you? No. What you find are Americans who are a third-German, or a quarter-Italian, who are proud of their heritage, but can't speak a lick of their ancestral tongue and are full-bodied, proud Americans. The acculturation process is underway among the Latino groups, and in thirty to forty years, the "fear factor" of the "overbearing presence" of their culture in our country will be non-existent because they will act like (and be accepted like) full-bodied, proud Americans. This acculturation process takes time and the more that Americans fight it, the longer it will take. It is hard for me to see, as a proud, white, female American (whose great-grandfather came from Germany in the early 1900s), why Oregonians, Arizonians, or other Americans are so hard on immigrants who come here to work hard and are not eligible for govt handouts. Isn't this what we ask our American children to do? Work hard, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, and you will be successful? When we punish the people who do this, it only increases the sense of entitlement our children have, instead of reinforcing the message that the only way you get ahead in life is through hard work, discipline, and self-reliance.
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We are a nation of immigrants. ( except of course for the first nation people of which many americans have American Indian blood including me ). We need immigrants for new ideas, tweaking of culture, and of course big business wants cheap labor ( example: poultry business). Immigration is one of the things that makes this nation the best on Earth for hundreds of different reasons. I want immigrants from around the world to come here. Do I want all to come here? NO. Not everyone should be allowed to enter this great nation. All that do come should expect to become Americanized, and LEARN ENGLISH! Still be proud of who you are and keep all positive trates of your culture. To come here and expect to keep all of your culture and language and only associate with ones own kind should not be embraced. Im 100% for the AZ law and will vote for anything similar in my own state.
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We are a nation of immigrants. ( except of course for the first nation people of which many americans have American Indian blood including me ). -- regguy — Tue June 22nd 10:52a.m.
Some anthropologists have put forth the hypothesis that the "Native Americans" and "First Nations People" themselves were immigrants from Asia (about 10,000 BC) via a land bridge where the present-day Bering Strait is located. Twelve millennia would be sufficient time for them to genetically diverge from the Asian root stock.
I wholeheartedly agree with your other point, however...most, if not all of us who call ourselves "American" have not only some "Indian" blood in us, but some "Black" blood as well. (Just look at the study conducted about two years ago that showed Barack Obama and Dick Cheney to be Eighth cousins as an example.)
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If we can put cameras on Mars, and my house on Google for all the world to see, why can't we patrol our borders and have witnessed the 10,000,000+ who have crossed in the last 15 years or so? Because when the crops are rotting, and farmers are screaming, the border is open, baby.
Would the next privileged unemployed "legal" American please stand up and say, "I want to work in the fields picking crops, bending over for hours in the hot hot sun." Where are these folks?
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I would just like to know this:
Exactly HOW was this "poll" conducted? WHO was polled? How do the respondents break down, racially? Were people contacted by cell phone, land line, door-to-door? Were people polled on the street at random? Was this poll done ALL OVER the state, or just in areas outside Portland/Metro?
This reason i'm asking all this is, i'm a person of colour who lives here in the Pacific NW & i absolutely do NOT agree with such a nakedly racist/Orwellian law which directly targets Latinos/Latinas. Yet, i had NO IDEA such a poll had taken place until last week when it was already done.
I live & work in this state, i pay taxes, contribute to this state more than i take away. But i don't recall anyone asking me what i thought. Infact, i can go to all of my friends - including my White friends - & probably NONE of them could say they've been polled about their thoughts concerning immigration.
Just who were they talking to, anyways?
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I support the new AZ law on immigration 100%. Any nation that doesn't have immigration laws and enforce them will not remain a nation for long. This country has been overly generous for decades to would-be immigrants. Some 80% of population growth over the past few decades is from immigrants and the children of immigrants. We cannot continue to increase our population on such a scale without life-threatening damage to the natural environment as well as gravely reducing general livability of residents. Arizona is suffering from the lack of federal enforcement of immigration laws and people there had the common sense and initiative to try to do something about it. Hooray for Arizona! There is no universal right to immigrate to the U.S. We need a moratorium on legal immigration now, and should adopt Attrition Through Enforcement as a means of reducing the illegal population. This includes mandatory use of E-Verify by all employers.
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I believe that there are just as many foreigners in this country legally but whose visas have expired and remain in the country. What is being done about that? Little, if anything and there are just as many of them. There is no way that illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans because the majority of us are "above that" concerning the jobs usually taken. Laws regarding employment have changed so that it should be very difficult for an undocumented worker to get hired unless the employer is breaking the rules or law. Further, we do not read about kidnappings and murders taking place in Arizona on a daily basis. All of the people I personally know who support this legislation are bigots/racists to begin with and they have NO personal experience regarding this issue whatsoever. It does not affect their daily lives. And whenever they see a Mexican or other foreigner they often automatically believe they are illegal. Americans of this type are sad. This legislation is nothing more than racism. And Arizona has no authority to make this law.
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I hold a BS and MS in Chemical Engineering, and a Ph.D in Electrical Engineering. I have six figures a year salary and the company I work for tries its best to hire the best people in the world. As expected, a large majority of engineers are not from the US, but from all over the world: Russia, Germany, Japan, China, India, Mexico and many other countries.
The immigration discussion needs to be separated between targeted legal immigration and general immigration. It is frustrating to see how people that do not follow the rules "get jobs" faster than people that are going through all the steps that law requires.
My wife and have decided to raise a family in the US because of safety concerns (everybody in my family has been robbed in Mexico). I simply do not wish my kids to live in fear.
In Mexico there is no sense of voluntarism. There you volunteer and are deemed a fool for working and not getting paid. while here in the US is part rewarded with nice comments and expectations that is almost required.
The US is stronger with immigration. But it needs to be targeted immigration that makes the US stronger, not weaker. Don't put us all in the same bucket.
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I am amazed at the lack of knowledge from the comments on your program on Arizona's immigration laws. Arizona gets 73% of its tax income from sales and property taxes, yet your guests repeatedly said immigrants don't pay any taxes. Do they get exemptions from sales taxes? Do they tell their landlords they dont have to pay the portion of rent that goes toward taxes? SSA estimates that $8 BILLION a year are paid in FICA taxes by illegal immigrants who get no benefits. Your speakers propose requiring citizenship tests to get social services. Don't they know that Medicaid, Food Stamps, TANF, Mental Health, DD, housing, etc. already require proof of citizenship. Application processes verify birth certificates and immigration documents with the issuing agency. What services are your expters talking about? The myth that illegals pay no taxes and use social services were repeated several times with no challenge. One caller said it best when she said the immigrants are the scapegoats. In this case for AZ politicians inability to address their budget problems.
Before you endorse this misguided law, come to Phoenix!! Come to a city that is riddled with drugs. My kids can buy cocain and heroin at three places within a mile of my home on the Paradise Valley border. The city leads the nation in deaths from red light runners - a city with virtually no traffic law enforcement. The police don't have time to investigate routine crimes like car burglary even when you try to initiate one. Then tell me that the best use of police resources is to spend two to four hours at a time arresting and booking janitors and kitchen workers.
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Has anybody here actualy read the Law? The showing of paperwork is only for lawfull trafic stops. and the documentation required is something that a leagle person is alredy required to have. There are prohibitions set into the law. Not to mention the fact that if you meet these standards "A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING: 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE. 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE. 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION."--which is a direct quote of the bill passed by Arizona--you are cannot be suspect. At a simple traffic stop what is the first question a police officer asks? License and registration. Provided you have that you have nothing to worry about.
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There are a few posts that bring up valid points, but are misguided at best. AZTOM pointed out that proof of citizenship is required to use our tax dollars. WRONG. 90% of the hispanics on our block are illegal, (my wife is the only LEGAL hisapnic living on our street) as far as I know all of the whites are legal. My wife is a manager at a financial institution and sees illegals using social security numbers to open bank accounts in order to function in our society, while others scam citizens with fraudulant debt, evade taxes, and of course using our SCHOOLS, ROADS, HOSPITALS, MEDICARE, FOOD STAMPS, WIC, etc. find it frustrating that illegals evade taxes and scam our system - the honest citizens and residents foot the bill! I think we should make it easier to obtain residence in our country, and have stricter laws regarding illegals who commit fraud or violent crimes. My grandma lives in Sun City Arizona and agrees 100% with the law the governor signed - she goes off on tangents about the illegals pouring over the borders everyday, yet she lives in a "retired caucasion" neighborhood - the only illegals she sees are her lawn care and home repairmen (which I might add are easily HALF the cost of what we would pay here in Portland!) I hit a nerve with her last week when I asked her if she were willing to pay twice as much to have a legal citizen do yard maintenance for her instead of the illegals she hires. Her response was "well, I don't know for sure if they're illegal" and I said "uh, grandma, if they are not licensed and they accept CASH ONLY and only 1 out of 4 of them can speak broken english, do you honestly think they are USA citizens? To gain citizenship you need to speak & understand english, not to mention have extensive knowledge of our history?!?" She replied "well, they aren't like the criminals who just keep coming back into the USA in order sell drugs or rob people". I just smiled. I think EVERYONE agrees that we need to find a solution soon. Out of the 10+ illegals living next door to me, the only person deported in the past 5 years was a permanent resident who was charged with theft, he served a few months in jail and then was transfered up to Tacoma and then deported a week later. One of my illegal neighbors has been here longer than I have and makes better money than I do with his drywall business. Our system is BROKEN -we need to fix it and I don't see a practical solution that will work for everyone.
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I forgot to mention that I helped my father in law gain his citizenship by helping him study for months.... The sad thing is my sister who was born in the USA knew about 20% of the questions on the practice test... FAIL! My Mexican born immigrant father in law knows more about our country than my own flesh and blood, and possibly most of the people who are strongly opposed to immigration in general... Our country is a melting pot of culture, and has a strong economy in general (despite our current status), immigrants play a vital role in our economy - think of who farmed your food, cleans your hotel rooms, etc... Many of those jobs are paid under the table below minimum wage, disrupting our CHEAP labor force would further disrupt our economy - that doesn't justify our current system - I just want to shed some light... Thanks for letting me rant!
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Comments are now closed.
I understand the motivation for the law in Arizona (AZ-SB 1070) but I do not agree with the implementation. I foresee a long docket of court complaints for wrongful stops and wrongful detention based on "driving while brown," "walking while brown," and a host of other incidents based on a law enforcement officer's "suspicion" that because someone is "brown" they must be an immigrant.
That said, I can't help but wonder how many jobs would be opened up for legal citizens if they weren't occupied by those of questionable immigration. (Even if those jobs are in fast food places...I would take a fast food job in the interim while I am unable to find another position.) Next time you're in a fast food outlet, look in the back and see how many brown faces you see.
Don't take my remarks as being "racist" as they are not, I just think that Citizens should be at the front of the line for getting jobs, not the people who are breaking the law just by being here.