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San Francisco's done it. So has China. Now Oregon Senators Mark Hass and Jason Atkinson want Oregon to become the first US state to restrict the use of plastic bags.
Their bill is up for a hearing next week during the legislature's short session. It would forbid Oregon stores of all types from offering plastic bags at checkout. The proposal brings up a range of environmental and economic issues. Anti-plastic activists say bag bans are appropriate because plastic bags are made from a non-renewable resource, end up in landfills and harm wildlife.
Opponents of plastic bag bans, like SaveThePlasticBag.com say environmental opposition to the plastic bag is misplaced — and that without plastic bags, people are more likeley to use paper bags, which take energy to produce and create more greenhouse gases.
How would you or your business be affected by a statewide plastic bag ban? What kind of bags do you choose now? Why?
GUESTS:
Mark Haas: State senator, sponsor of Sentate Bill 1009 to ban many plastic bags in Oregon
Stephen Joseph: Lead council for and co-founder of SaveThePlasticBag.com
Tagged as: economy · environment · paper · plastic · special session
Photo credit: polandeze / Creative Commons
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"This is the message we want to send out about environmental responibility, that it starts with the little stupid things, the easy targets?"
Why absolutely scottmil, thanks for pointing out the simplicity, one has to crawl before they can walk. It is indeed the little things we do as a collective society that make for a good place to start...and the collective little things can yield larger movements.
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seadawger,
You skipped the word 'stupid.'
It is unfortunate that people concerned about the state of the environment have to resort to hackneyed causes, and in the process act like evangelical zealots. It truly makes people not care, and not listen to anything they have to say. I know we love to brag about how calm the tone is on NPR, rather then the shouting of the other stations. I personally don't care much whether one whispers or shouts, I prefer to focus on the quality of what they have to say. Tone is and will always be superficial. The quality of an argument and its relation to the bigger picture are very important to me. They should be very important to anyone trying to dictate what other people can and cannot do. The plastic bag at checkout and its relation to the overwhelming use of plastic in so much of our lives is an absurd and asinine place to start.
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It is time to do this in Oregon, and it makes sense. Does it deal with waste in other areas, no. Does is ban paper bags, no. What it does do is take an opportunity to get rid of something that is clearly a problem, here, and far beyond Oregon's borders.
As I testified in the Senate yesterday with Gus, we see these bags along, and in, every river in Oregon. They show up in the riparian zones, and floating along in the water. They cause problems for Wildlife, and when they get to the Ocean, they contribute to a huge problem of plastics showing up in massive areas.
Plastic simply doesn't go away, it breaks into smaller and smaller pieces. Wildlife consume them by mistake, and as they break down, smaller animals eat the minute pieces as well. There have been some great documentaries in recent years on this issue showing the detrimental impact they have on wildlife.
Hey, Oregon can do its part. Passage of SB 1009 will serve as a great wakeup call for people to actually think about how they use resources every day. If this becomes law, it may well lead to a decrease in paper use if retailers seek to educate folks at the checkout stand, and encourage the purchase of cloth bags.
We should support SB 1009. To get this done in this short session of the Oregon Legislature would be a great accomplishment.
Travis Williams
Willamette Riverkeeper
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I don't see the big worries with a ban or a charge for plastic bags. Why can't you just use reusable canvas or some other material bag? We are smart people, we'll figure out a way to carry things without contributing so much waste that never really goes away and harms many types of wildlife. Our society needs to make some serious changes if we want to have clean water and air with abundant wildlife. Making the change away from plastic to more biodegradeable materials won't be that hard. It will be like seatbelts, at first people are annoyed by the time it takes to click it and that you didn't have to wear them before. But after a little time it will be normal and not an issue.
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The massive amounts of plastic bags strewn about our natural and urban worlds is unnecessary (and unsightly). We have no more resources to waste and this is a clear and simple one to solve. Ban the Bag!
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There are certainly some important uses for plastics: the medical field, creating lighter (thus more efficient) vehicles in the transportation sector, etc.
BUT, as a one time use convenience item? Are we really so lazy and short sighted as a society?! The persistance of single use plastics in our waterways, and the associated environmental impacts are inexcusable.
Reusable bags are cheap, readily available and should be the only thing we haul groceries home in. The fact that this is a even an issue is a sad indicator of the state of our Country.
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I organize the International Plastic Quilt Project (www.LNPB.org) whereby participants take a three month long plastic-free challenge and create art of the plastic that they get even when focused on seeking out alternatives. This has helped many to realize that banning the plastic bag is not a fatal blow to business, freedom and personal liberty. There are many opportunities for innovation, not to mention healthier food and more of a connection to the local food economy, if you take plastic out of the everyday consumer market.
Being more discerning about the few things that can justifiably be made out of plastic is an important step toward innovations that can be exported to other parts of the country and the world, plastic-free! Think ahead, Leave No Plastic Behind and Ban the Bag, to start!
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"Rise Above Plastics" --- Lincoln City Environmental Scientist endorses Surfrider Foundation!
I would like to thank OPB and Think Out Loud for bringing this topic up for discussion. Similarly I applaud Senators Hass and Atkinson for championing this issue at the state level. This argument is not about Plastic vs. Paper, but simply do we want to allow for the consistent fouling of our waterways, coastline and oceans by way of single use plastics such as the petroleum based, non-biodegradable plastic bags found at grocers and convenient stores around the state? Surely there will be well funded arguments in favor of plastic bags, many with reasonable assertions, but the argument is not about only about manufacturing costs, transportation efficiencies, or the like. The reality is that billions of these bags are produced annually, only a small percentage get recycled, and the rest lay in landfills, are caught in trees, and are more and more often found in our oceans and seas. Further, a recent study entitled, "Persistent organic pollutants carried by synthetic polymers in the ocean environment," by Rios et.al, 2007 which details the invisible dangers associated with plastic marine debris and the risk to the very basic food chain we and the oceans depend on is of greater concern.
Plastics are organic molecules, and in the world of chemistry, "like, likes like", meaning that these plastic bits floating around in the ocean, pick up through adsorption other organic chemicals such as PCBs, DDT, PAHs and other chemicals that bioaccumulate in animal tissue. Once on the plastic bits, these chemicals may be ingested by unsuspecting filter feeders and other animals, eventually migrating up the food chain. Bioaccumulation is well documented, and this recent finding points to another mechanism for which these persistent chemicals, many of which are carcinogenic, can work their way into the food chain, and eventually humans as well.
Thank you again for airing this important issue.
Sincerely,
Paul Robertson, MSc Environmental Diagnosis
Imperial College London
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SB 1009 goes too far in "prohibiting" the use of plastic bags as checkout bags. The workable solution would simply be to charge (or even tax!) for using or buying plastic bags when they are needed. If this self-righteous bill passes, I can already see myself at the Fred Meyer self-checkout defiantly putting my groceries in old Fred Meyer plastic bags with handles.
I use and re-use the bags made of thin plastic for many reasons: wrapping used cat litter before putting it in the trash; protecting my commuter bag from leaky meals; protecting purchases like new clothing from the other items in my tote bag; and as trash bags on airplanes and in cars. In China, when the zipper broke on my daypack I tied the opening with a plastic bag (a technique I had observed in use by a street person in Portland.) Those fancy paper shopping bags with handles that we get at REI and Nordstrom take up too much room in my tote.
If plastic and plastic objects leave indelible and dangerous traces in the environment, let's address the issue in sensible ways that might actually have a positive impact.
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GraceG (and other plastic bag re-users out there),
What would you end up using for that list of current re-uses? Would you buy new plastic bags?
Dog owners out there, same question: if you use plastic shopping bags to clean up after your dog right now, what would replace them?
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I use biobags for my trash and I wonder if you could get a smaller version for dog poo. Maybe there needs to be a demand for it. The bio bags are compstable although I guess you wouldn't want to put them in your vegetable compost with dog poop. hummm, not sure what you'd do with it/ But putting it in plastic and then in the trash just seems weird ... like all the pampers that end up in the dump... there has to be a solution to the maddness. Maybe composting trash cans at parks to throw the bags o'poo in ...like composting toilets. Ha! I wonder if that could work... but who is going to make it happen?
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I have to agree that an out-right ban on these bags seems unnecessary. Rather, I much prefer Seattle's approach to disincentivize the use with a fee on bags. I would strongly support OR pursuing a fee on any disposable bag to further incentivize the use of resuable bags.
It was incredible to read the numbers in this Monday's Oregonian, that with the public awareness around how resource intensive disposables are Fred Meyer has seen a decrease in demand to the tune of ordering 14 million less plastic bags & 2.2 million less paper bags in 2008 than in 2007!
We need to build on that momentum, and reduce unnecessary waste being generated.
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The Oregon legislature is so cute! Bankrupt social programs and incoherent school funding, but somebody wants to use time to consider banning bags.
Use incentives to encourage the already booming use of good heavy re-usable bags. Gather the litter plastic bags strewn about for raw material for faux wood benches and whatnot.
Other than that, let the citizens sort this one out for themselves. There really are more important things to work on.
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I personally welcome a ban on plastic bags. These items of "convenience" were created without a thought to their disposal and are now so ubiquitous after 40 years of use that commenters here don't seem to think twice about what we did before its invention.
Three years ago I hand-made 24 canvas bags and gave them away as gifts for Christmas. My timing was spot-on, as that year stores started carrying reusable bags and encouraging shoppers to bring their own bags. In Eugene, the PC Market of Choice chain has banned plastic bags in their own stores and encouraged shoppers to bring in their own bags.
The most annoying feature of plastic bags is that it seems that no matter the quantity of your purchase, store clerks are happy to put it in a bag. Whether you're buying a single bottle of Advil or prepackaged food item, they tend to put it in a bag without thought. I often find myself in these situations standing in front of them, removing the item from the bag in silence and walking away, leaving the bag behind. Seriously, I can't carry a single item out of the store without a bag?! It's just so wasteful.
And despite a move to offer reusable bags at cost at all the stores I shop in, I find myself in a minority group that remembers to bring reusable bags. I have a small, foldable reusable bag that I keep in my purse (my mom has one that I gave her that she clips to her keychain), so that for small trips to the grocery store I always have my own bag. On weekly trips, I always stuff the canvas bags into one and bring them in the store with me - enjoy the minor rebate given by the store for bringing my own bags - and leave, unlikely to see more than one other customer who did the same.
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If plastic bags are banned, I'll miss'em as they have so many uses beyond just carying the groceries home (and they're free)... we regularly use them as:
Waste basket liners, kitty scat containers, impromptu rainproof lunch bags, shoe-bags and laundry bags when traveling, impromptu rainproof carry-on bags, impromptu poncho's for small people (cut a hole in the bottom/sides, works in a pinch), light-weight and leak-resistant bio-waste containers when backpacking...
I completely agree that when they're diposed of improperly they're a risk to wildlife, but that's a littering problem, not a bag problem (make them bio-degradeable?).
Guess I'll have to buy them if they're banned as paper bags won't replace them.
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Ban the Bag!!!
Single use plastic grocery bags are a major environmental issue, I'm glad to see that it's finally getting it's due attention via common sense legislation. Last year in Oregon, consumers used 39 million single use plastic grocery bags, which required 150,000 barrels of oil to produce. Yet sadly, less than 5% of these bags are ever fully recycled. You see them everywhere, on the streets, in our lakes & rivers, on the beaches, and in the ocean. These plastic bags never fully bio-degrade. Plastic bags are harmful to seabirds, turtles, and marine mammals and frequently result in death.
Some say that Recycling is the answer, but the important thing to remember is to Reduce, Reuse, and then Recycle...in that order.
The Portland Chapter of the Surfrider Foundation has been working hard over the past few years to raise awareness about the environmental impacts of plastics. The Chapter has collected over 5,000 petition signatures in support of a ban on single use plastic bags, sign the on-line petition here: http://www.surfrider.org/banthebag The Chapter has also built a coalition of 47 business', organizations, and neighborhood associations in support of this effort. Portland Chapter as well as the Newport Chapter, partnered with SOLV last year during the annual spring and fall beach cleanups to distribute over 2,000 reusable bags to cleanup participants.
For us, the replacement of plastic with paper is not the way to go. Instead we are promoting and encouraging the use of reusable cloth bags, many grocery stores will even give you a discount on your groceries for doing so! Maui & Kaui Counties, San Francisco, Manhattan Beach, Malibu, Los Angeles, Edmunds (WA), Outer Banks (NC), Washington D.C., Mexico City, Rio de Janeiro, Mumbai, Ireland, China, Tanzania, Taiwan, Australia, Italy, South Africa, and Bangladesh have all passed policies aimed at reducing the use of plastic bags. If these places can do it, Oregon should too and reaffirm it's position as an environmental leader to become the first state in the nation to do so. The clock is ticking on our sesquicentennial, the legislature should pass this common sense piece of legislation with bi-partisian sponsorship from Senator Hass and Senator Atkinson.
Gus Gates
Oregon Policy Coordinator- Surfrider Foundation
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I lived in Spain for three months in 2009. Regular plastic bags cost 5 cents. People mostly brought their own bag. This approach of charge is more reasonable.
Hadi
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What if biodegradable plastic bags were allowed? ie. made from soybeans.
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Those opposed to beginning with the smallest of changes are deluding themselves; if they are unwilling to make tiny sacrifices, can they honestly imagine they will be willing to make large ones?
I have several fair trade baskets which I use to market. Sometimes I do forget to take them, and then fall back on paperbags from the market. If they were not available, I would soon learn.
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People don't object to small changes, they object to small, ill-conceived, and unnecessary changes.
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In Europe, retailers charge a fee for every bag they supply to you. Rather than give a credit of 0.05 for every re-useable bag a customer brings, the store charges perhaps 0.25 for each bag no matter if plastic or paper. The result is that nearly everybody brings a bag with them, and even the lightweight plastic bags get reused until they actually give out.
This system makes sense and works well. I don't know if stores are required by government to charge for bags, or if this system developed all by itself.
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That makes sense to me.
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What will I do for my garbage bags? The "kitchen bags" they sell are too big and too thick. It would be a waste to buy them.
Between all the uses for the plastic shopping bag and recycling the ones that are torn, I barely get enough bags from the store. -
Why do you need garbage bags? I don't use them (I compost tea bags, coffee grounds, fruit & veg waste) and don't have much wet waste. If my kitchen container needs cleaning, I rinse it out once in a while.
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People need garbage bags, because if they are environmentally responsible then they surely must live in a densely populated area, most likely in an apartment, then they have to get their garbage to the garbage chute or down to the dumpster in something practical, which is generally a plastic bag. I think it would be rather difficult to tip a rigid large container into the chute and it would also be terribly messy.
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I get paper about half the time from the store and reuse them the next time I go to the store. When I get plastic, I reuse them as wastebasket liners or to pick up after the dog. I don't reuse the bags after that.
Thanks, Dtechwriter
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I usually just say "no bag, please".
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You mentioned how many barrells of oil it take to make all the plastic bags Oregonians use each year. How does that stack up to the amount of oil needed to make the same number of paper bags? How much oil would we be saving by switching to paper?
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This just seems like such an untimely and possibly unnecessary measure. Other regions have improved recycling measures for these bags and maintained consumer choice. I can't help but think of my parents who live on the coast and walk to the store, they often bring their cloth bags, but on a rainy day when they might forget them, not being able to get a bag that will last the rainy walk up the street???
I am frustrated by the legislature's desire to push this when there are so many other pressing issues that we should be talking about.
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I have to wonder if the people who don't have a problem with the ban actually go shopping, or shop very much? I go shopping all the time, probably, yes way too often. I am not about to walk with an empty tacky tote to the store, flapping around in the wind. I do use these dreadful totes at times, but I am not about to use them every time I go shopping. I also walk a lot so as not to drive. If it rains when you are walking with paper bags, they fall apart. If you buy books at Powell's and put them in paper bags, they get wet in the rain. So, go ahead and ban plastic bags and I will drive to the store instead of walking. Sometimes, I spend all day on foot, walk to breakfast somewhere, get some coffee, read the New Yorker I keep in my back pocket, then see a movie, then maybe go shopping and take my purchases home. I think I am pretty responsible in most areas, and if I want a plastic bag now and then to protect my purchases from the rain I expect to have it.
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For decades, I pick up litter daily while walking my dog thru my neighborhood and a local park. By far the most numerous piece of litter is CIGARETTE BUTTS. Each pack of cigarettes leads to 25 plus pieces of nondegradable litter.
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Why are we banning plastic bags? If we as a county protect the rights of all sorts of extreme fringe groups, why are people who prefer plastic to paper being not allowed to exercise that preference? I think, if anything, there should be a tax on plastic bags - like 5 cents each - which would discourage plastic bag use, but still allow people who want to use them, to do so.
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I bundle my plastic bags into a big ball and return them to the market for recycling. In that form, I'll bet I could toss them in the recycling bin and they would not clog the machinery.
I am all for real and substantial progress on this and similar issues, but I am with the listeners that think this is.... less than a pressing issue.
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They tried collecting bundled plastic bags in Seattle with other recycling, but it didn't work. Bags got loosed and clogged up screens.
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We have two dogs and need 3 bags a day for them every day and a couple of extras on weekends.
We end up buying a separate specialty pet waste disposal bag because we use recyclable cloth bags for most shopping. This means a new factory to supply these bags, a separate delivery system, and seperate space in the store.
We get plastic bags from our friends.
We put dog feces in the Portland Parks trash. They have quit using liners in the trash cans.
Some place in europe quit using the bags and found out their total footprint increased.
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99.9% of the time I bring my own cloth bags to the store. I recycle all clean plastic that I use. That being said, I think this is a waste of legislative time. This legislation will not affect any amount of plastic in the paper recycling stream or plastic in the environment. Plastic in the recycle stream and environment is the result of lazy and ill informed people. This anti grocery plastic bag legislation is strictly election year politics. Don't waste this so-called "special session" on election year posturing.
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These thin thin bags are the perfect size for great garbage can liners so I have almost never thrown one away after a single use. If they go away, I'll have to buy big thick garbage bags that will often end up being thrown away half full and so will end up using much more plastic than before a ban. Why not use technology and design recycling machinery that can process these bags? Require it by law if necessary. This anti-plastic bad law would simply pass the cost on to grocers rather than recyclers.
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Saying plastic bags are made of Ethane and not oil is disingenuous. They separate the Ethane from oil. So, they are still using oil.
That's a little like saying you don't use oil because you burn Kerosene.
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The speaker said that this Ethane is taken from natural gas, not oil. (Natural gas mostly produced in the United States.)
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Yes, that's what he said.
I should have been more clear, Ethane can be isolated from either natural gas or oil. It is true that MOST plastic bags are made from Ethane isolated from natural gas, but it is not true that ALL plastic bags are and that NO oil is used.
I'm willing to bet you would be hard pressed to prove an exact figure on how much Ethane used comes from oil and how much comes from natural gas. So, both sides were being less than honest (both the 150,000 barrel comment and the no oil comment).
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Of course more greenhouse gases are used to make paper bags---common sense should tell you that. That is why plastic bags are cheaper then paper bags, because they are more efficient.
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How about a technological solution: When the customer gets to the checkout counter, he scans his store card and a laser (like in a DVD burner) marks bags as they are used for him with his ID.
Then if the bag is found in the environment, he gets fined $25 and the finder gets $5.
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Interesting idea and that would provide money making opportunities for the homeless.
I wonder if a recycling system can be set up like for aluminum cans.
Hmm.
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Animals Eating Plastic Bags
Yep, turtle eating blue plastic pops up a lot...but, there are 2.4 million results and plenty of images of animals other than that turtle.
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I just don't understand why people can't bring reusable bags to the store. Is it that difficult? Are people seriously that lazy? How about we dispense of all bags at the stores so people *have* to bring their own bags. Otherwise they can carry their purchase in their hands.
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It should be quite clear to anyone who is paying attention that the use of plastic bags is harmful to the environment on a number of counts.
It is equally clear that the use of paper bags has a serious environmental impact.
The answer is so simple ... use cloth bags. No serious impact ... they go back to the earth when they are thrown away. And their manufacture creates and/or suports jobs for farmers, agricutural workers, textile workers and others.
And to the degree that a ban on plastic bags will cut down on the problems that we all see (except the plastic industry) and will encourage the use of cloth or reusable bags, I am all for it.
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Plastic shopping bags (and other film plastics) are a disaster in mixed recycling systems (like we have in most urban areas in Oregon). So forget curbside recycling of them. As for dropping them off, a lot of people take them to the store or a depot, but many more throw them away. Requiring them to be dropped off reduces participation in recycling of them. Last available data for disposal vs. recycling of plastic film in Oregon: in 2002 (most recent data) Oregon landfilled 27,781 tons of recyclable film plastic (bags) 6724 tons recycled (10,739 tons recycled in 2008--no disposal data until DEQ finishes waste evaluation study).
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In Europe people have never used bags as much, because of economics and because Europeans are cheaper, poorer, and/or more frugal then Americans. This history is not, nor was it ever, based on environmental concerns. They have only recently decided to market it as such.
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Sitting here at home, actually did google "plastic bags wildlife" and found indeed MANY immages of this not the 5 Mr. Plastic insists are the only ones out there.
Has anyone actually looked at I-5? or all along the train tracks? It is disgusting, so many they look like ghosts of birds.
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Stephen is right, according to the internet, they are made from the waste product of natural gas, however, that is a mute point. We are a wastefull society, and anytime we can eliminate waste we become a slightly better culture. I know we still need some kind of containing device, and if it needs to be a bag, why can we not make them from a degradable waste material, i.e. corn husk, bamboo, etc.
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I am amazed at what I am hearing on your program! Plastic bags are made of a waste product we are getting from natural gas. What a great way to recycle!
I use plastic shopping bags as trash bags in our house. I do not buy plastic trash bags. We recycle, we compost our food waste (we have five backyard chickens and a compost pile), and we use the smallest trash barrel available from the garbage company. I view this practice as another way to recycle, because otherwise I would be buying plastic trash bags that do generate a cost to the environment to produce.
I understand that the pollution from discarded plastic bags is a serious problem. I am not convinced that banning them is the right solution.
Thanks,
Lori in Redmond, OR
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And where are those plastic bags made? Not in Oregon from the waste of our natural gas use.
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Has anyone considered the viable intelligent alternative of hemp bags? Renewable and sustainable resource that avoids the problems of plastic and wood-based paper.
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In the growing collection at home of re-usable grocery bags, I have a hemp bag. But I like my bamboo fibre bag better because it has stiffer sides and is easier to fill at the grocery check-out.
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I was going to add bamboo to that hemp list, same argument applies, but wanted to keep it simple - either or - absolutely right
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If you want to see plastic bags becaome marginalized and eventually disappear, make folks buy them to take store products home. Just have a point-of purchase "tax" or price or whatever on bags.
Have one vending machine that sells heavy re-usable bags and one vending machine that sells cheap plastic bags. Make consumers buy however many bags they need to cart their grocery or other products home.
The problem is obviously that stores provide cheap and convenienct plastic bags for "free". Once consumers percieve a cost, they will seek to minimize that cost.
Problem solved without having a legislature get involved. Now they can go do some real work.
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In response to all the people saying "but what will I pick up my dog poop with and line my garbage cans with?", I ask: where did you get the idea that poop bags and garbage bags were to be provided to the populace free of charge?
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The idea is that these super thin bags are used multiple times and substitute for other products that use more plastic or are worse for the environment in some other way.
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In a recent estimation plastic bags only make up 1/4 of the plastic film waste stream. The remaining 3/4 of the film waste stream is comprised of product packaging such as toilet paper wrapping, newspaper bags, etc. Currently grocery store take-back program accept nearly 100% of the film waste stream (bags, and packaging). If you create a bag ban, it will dismantle the grocery store recycling infastructure. What then becomes of the remaining 3/4 of the film waste stream? Does it head to the landfill? Does that larger portion of the film waste stream become the new plastic pollution?
You cannot responsibly discuss a bag ban without talking about alternative film collection infastructures.
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Trying to determine whether paper or plastic is better isn't where we should put our energies. Disposable bags, plastic or paper, require energy to produce and therefore contribute to environmental degradation. A targeted tax of 1% or 2% of the total grocery bill would encourage the use of reusable bags and deal with the entire problem. The tax could be used to handle cleanup/recycling of either bag type.
To clarify, ethane, the base material to produce plastic bags, is a pretoleum product - it isn't oil but certainly a fossil fuel.
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But one that according to the speaker may have no other uses and may end up released into the environmen t rather than buried in the ground. If you know of other uses for ethane, please enlighten us. Where would it go if they stopped making these bags?
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Since last June, in my hometown in Japan, all grocery stores charge 5 yen / approximately 5 cents, per plastic bag. Residents responded that the new system has been working great, encouraging people to bring their own bag(s) and cutting down on litter.
Chiho (pronounced Chee-ho)
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If you are like me, you have your cloth bags in the car and forget to take them into the store, so at the checkout, you reluctantly take the bag offered. One day it dawned on me, duh! just leave the groceries in the cart, wheel it out to the car and put them in the forgotten bag yourself. Try it! You will feel so much less guilty.
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What about the great plastic garbage patch in the middle of the pacific that's around 2-3 times the size of Texas? I hear alot about that and about how plastic breaks into smaller and smaller particles and eventually gets into our food chain.
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If there are no plastic bag recyclers in Oregon, and so few in general according to the Senator, where do our plastic bags go when we return them to Safeway?
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Senator Hass is wrong when he states plastic bags can't be recycled. They are recycled into composite lumber and other similar products. Google 'recycling plastic bags facts'.
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The focus might be better placed to enact legislation to cause recyclers to be able to handle plastic bags. \
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I work at a grocery store and its RIDICULOUS the excuses people come up with that they forgot their bag. I bring my bag every single time, it doesn't take a brain scientist. You remembered your cell phone but not your bag? they whine about it, and make excuses, i'm tired of hearing about it!
also, I have a dog and we buy bio bags... I think you should have to pay for bags to clean up after your dog- why should you get free bags? You own the animal and need to take responsible for that animal OR don't have one!
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Use Biodegradable bags...They look and feel like plastic bags. . They are compostable made out of GMO free starch & vegetable oil and compostable polymer. Not sure what compostable polymer is but since it is compostable it seems to be in the right direction. Can be bought at New Seasons market. Maybe other stores willl be carrying them soon if people start asking for them.
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I agree that we should ban- or strongly discourage- both plastic and paper. My understanding is that paper bags cannot be made of 100% recycled paper (due to strength issues), therefore, virgin wood must be used- which is a waste of live trees. I would like to know why the senator strongly opposes plastic bags, but not paper, too.
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Ban the scientifically unproven supplement section at Whole Foods, Food Front, New Seasons and everywhere else. An entire industry that consumes numerous resources and is based entirely on fiction. Ban the Naturopaths, the Chiropractors, and all the other quacks out there, if we are such advocates for science. It is ironic that so many of the people who are allegedly environmentalists only use science when it supposedly suits them, and then down echinacea to cure their colds, but then want to dictate what piece of science should matter to other people, and where other people should draw a line.
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First, I think that we should ban paper bags, plastic bags, and plastic wrapping/packing materials.
For the first 20 years of my live I lived at the beach and I can tell you that the beaches (and rivers) in the 70's and 80's didn't have anything near the amount of plastic that the beaches (and rivers) have today.
Unlike the guest, I have seen more than 5-10 plastic bags on the beach. The beaches today are so inundated with plastic that plastic is replacing the sand! Next time you’re at the beach look close and you can see it for your self.
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I think a tax on any non-reusable bag would be best. I wonder if because Oregon has a large timber and paper manufacturing industry, is this influencing senator Haas' push to ban plastic bags? Also, was any of the campaign contributions he accepted derived from any timber or paper lobbying group/idustry? Why wouldn't Haas advocate for a tax on both paper and plastic if he REALLY wanted to help the enviornment?
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I took Stephen Joseph's challenge to google images of marine animals and plastic bags.
He was correct that the image of a turtle with a blue bag appears frequently but he was wrong about the number of images I would find.
I saw over 30 different images of turtles, birds, fish, seals, otters etc and decided I had seen enough and stopped going through the 700 plus images.
Stephen sounds so sure that Mark Haas is not using facts. Perhaps he should check his facts.
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WE SEE PLASTIC BAGS EVERYWHERE ON OUR RIVERS!!! THIS IS A REALITY.
THEY END UP EVERYWHERE. THEY DO NOT BREAK DOWN!!
SIMPLY SWITCH TO BUYING A REUSABLE BAG - IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO DO.
PLASTIC BAGS BREAK INTO MYRIAD PIECES.
Also - You guys really should have made time for Gus Gates from the Surfrider Foundation. They have been leading the Charge on this issue for quite some time. This would have made a more balanced program - even with today's time constraints because of the pledge drive!
TRAVIS WILLIAMS
WILLAMETTE RIVERKEEPER
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I agree completely. As an avid kayaker I see the bags along the rivers. I also see hundreds of plastic beverage containers and miles of monofilament fishing line. Most beverage containers have a deposit, yet they are everywhere. Lets ban ban plastic beverage containers.
My point is, Senator Hass' legislation has very little to do with a much larger problem. He should legislate personal responsibility, not legislating bans that sound good in an election year.
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Americans have to change their mindset from using things once and throwing them away. Both paper and plastic bags require energy to create. Too many people use bags once and throw them away. I'm for banning plastic and paper bags because they're polluting landfills and the Pacific Ocean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch
I'm riding the bike to the grocery store and use a back pack and reusable cloth bags to transport groceries for about half of my shopping trips. It's a start.
When you learn that it takes either five liters or five gallons of water to create a plastic lid for a Starbucks coffee, it might spur you to think about the true cost of things.
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I saw a vivid and concrete example of the effect a law banning plastic bags can have on a country. A year or so ago Rwanda enacted a national law banning all plastic bags throughout the country. When you cross the border or fly into the country, customs will often go through your luggage and require that you discard any plastic bags before entering the country. The result is dramatic. If you cross the border from adjoining countries you see landscapes covered in plastic bags (in trees, ditches, gutters, burn piles) and as soon as you cross into Rwanda the hillsides are clean and there is not a plastic bag to be seen .Though this is only one tool inRwandans mulitfaced evironmental reform, it's working.
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There is an monetary insentive to use re-useable bags. The main grocery stores that I shop at give me a 5 cent per bag credit to my purchase for each bag that I provide.
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http://use-less-stuff.com/
its not .org by the way
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17 mile ride to work; stopped counting at 120 discarded plastic bags; didn't see any paper - seems like that is reason enough for a ban
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According to the speaker, the paper would have decomposed into methane gas that is warming the air around you as we speak, so to speak... :-)
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I hope this ban passes! In the meantime ... a reminder that there currently IS an incentive to bring your own bag with you to the store. Many grocery stores GIVE you 3 cents per bag used. At Target it's 5 cents.
Also, I think newspaper bags should to be added to this discussion. (Those plastic bag sleeves that keep the rain off your paper for home delivery.) That's 365 papers per household per year for daily delivery! The Oregonian does NOT have a program to recycle these ... I've asked.
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Sure. How about starting with a law requiring stores to offer such an incentive to anyone who brings in their own bag, regardless of the type. Seems like it would be difficult to ague with a law such as this. Start simple with things that we have general concensus would cause no additional harm.
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If your carrier does not tie a knot in the neck of the bag, then you can easily slip your paper out (maybe not so much with the Sunday edition), save them up in a large paper grocery bag, and return them to your carrier for re-use (better than recycling, as they go around more than once before going out with the curbside bin).
My partner and I were carriers for the Register-Guard here in Eugene for several years, and some of our subscribers did that. It really helped a lot, especially as the R-G charges carriers for the bags at the rate of $40 for a box of 20 clips of 100 bags each. (Works out to 2 cents per bag, and if you use a bag every day (we didn't) it comes to $7.30 in extra expenses per subscriber per year.)
Ask your Carrier if they would like the bags back for re-use.
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"I am not about to walk with an empty tacky tote to the store, flapping around in the wind. I do use these dreadful totes at times, but I am not about to use them every time I go shopping."-scottmil
This is exactly the problem. People take them grocery shopping but not anywhere else. I think they should be banned in every single mall in the United States.
and there not tacky- obviously you care way to much about your image. get over your self people! make these small changes, don't think about your self for once.
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Tax both paper and plastic bags and use the funds to support recycling efforts. Like many, my memory somehow sharpens when money is a factor and those nice OPB bags I have won't get left at home as often.
BTW, it's my recollection that it doesn't matter whether bags are made of 'biodegradable' materials--in pragmatic terms, everything is inert in a landfill and the amount of time it takes to break down a so-called biodegradable plastic bag is far beyond the amount of time it takes to join the big plastic island in the Pacific or end up inside an animal.
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Sounds like they need to redesign the bags so that they can be recycled more easily and also make them biodegradeable in a short amount of time, like weeks or months.
I like the bags for some things but I hate seeing them blowing around in the environment or floating around in the lakes, rivers, and oceans.
Obviously, we need to regulate the plastic bag industries.
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That's probably the only good side of this ban that I see. We all talk about jobs lost, inconvenience, not having other options, etc. etc. etc.
But, really, industry is going to respond as it always does... find another solution that is as convenient or more so and make money at that.
People complain about all of the environmental regulations on the electronics industry, which did cause trouble for a while. But, now you have companies like Apple producing products that are crazy environmentally friendly and highly recyclable...and they have not added anything to their prices.
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Plastic bags can be recycled! Sorry, they are inconvenient to the recyclers, and clog the equipment. I thought we didn't care about other peoples' inconvenience. I suppose they should spend the money to find a way to recycle them more efficiently instead of giving up and banning them.
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I was under the impression that OPB "Think Out Loud" was meant to be a platform for respectful, and thoughtful dialogue. If this was the case, why did they invite the very rude Stephen Joseph to contribute? What a wanker! Clearly as Senator Hass pointed out, this guy is payed heavily by the plastic industry. Interesting how he contradicted himself by acknowledging that plastic bags are a problem in the beginning, and then wouldn't answer the direct question when asked about it later.
Very disappointed that OPB chose to interview a very rude pro-plastic lobbyist, and an out of state supporter rather than highlighting the great work that some of the local groups are doing on this issue like Willamette Riverkeepers, Recycling Advocates, and The Surfrider Foundation. The NW Grocers Association actually gets it, they should have been on there.
Sorry OPB, I know you are doing a pledge drive, but I can't justify giving you a contribution with the biased reporting and lack of good moderation on this common sense issue...
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"I was under the impression that OPB "Think Out Loud" was meant to be a platform for respectful, and thoughtful dialogue. If this was the case, why did they invite the very rude Stephen Joseph to contribute? What a wanker!"
And calling someone a "wanker" is thoughtful and respectful?
Yes, they should have included proponents from all sides, preferably from Oregon if possible.
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I've always vagulely been anti-plastic bag but my thinking on the subject was certainly muddled and I did not have any facts or a sure footing on the topic. It just goes to show you how somebody that is well-researched and informed can be so enlightening to others. I believe that State Senator Haas demonstrated a stunning lack of intellect and logic on this topic. In contrast, Mr Joseph presented much credible and coherent evidence on the topic.
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Dr. Jason Clay discusses the true cost of producing the food we consume in this hour and 10 minute presentation. It is indeed "food for thought".
http://oregonstate.edu/media/ccvbvn
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Wow. I have always been extremely skeptical of of public advocates paid by the industry. But I have to say that Senator Hass is the one who seems to be trying to manipulate the discussion with emotional yet unverifiable information. I haven't decided exactly where I sit on this issue, but I am sure glad that Mr. Joseph is there to keep the discussion on verifiable issues. I'm also glad I live in Beaverton so that I can vote against someone prefers to use emotional imagery rather than address facts behind this issue.
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A little late but your system wouldn't let me in.
I can't believe that the host of this show about plastic bags didn't key in on two very important facts.
First plastic bags as stated do not use oil in their manufacturing cycle, so the 150,000 barrels of oil is such a lame use of facts and I am suprised that the senator would use it.
Secondly to make a big deal about your other guest being paid by the industry is also a lame excuse to undermind an opinion. It is a fact that the State of Oregon uses lobbyist's for specific things they want done in industry and Washington.
Another thing I might add is the use of not putting in a fee to get the usage down because of hard economic times. Everyone forgot to mention the hundreds if not thousands of people that will lose their jobs if this passes. Seems we should spend a little more time getting the recycling machines to perform better.
Lastly it would be wise to surf the internet for pictures of animals being hurt by these bags. I am aware of the turtle but are you aware that most of the enviromental pictures when not used with the campaign against plastic bags, are pictures of plastic that secures a six pack of soda or alcohol.
I would be more willing to except what is being done with the use of plastic bags if people who are supposed to be in the know whould spend some time researching the facts they use.
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First plastic bags as stated do not use oil in their manufacturing cycle, so the 150,000 barrels of oil is such a lame use of facts and I am suprised that the senator would use it.
It's not a lame fact, it's just not a complete fact. Similarly, the other side made an equally incomplete claim that no oil is used in plastic bag manufacturing.
Ethane is isolated from BOTH natural gas and oil. So, it is disingenuous to say no oil is used, and it is, at best, incomplete to simply say "150,000 barrels of oil are required." The barrel fact may be true, but the senator did not back it up.
Secondly to make a big deal about your other guest being paid by the industry is also a lame excuse to undermind an opinion. It is a fact that the State of Oregon uses lobbyist's for specific things they want done in industry and Washington.
Yes, complete fallacy. You can't say: "Person A is a lobbyist and Evil Industries X, Y, and Z have lobbyists."
Lastly it would be wise to surf the internet for pictures of animals being hurt by these bags. I am aware of the turtle but are you aware that most of the enviromental pictures when not used with the campaign against plastic bags, are pictures of plastic that secures a six pack of soda or alcohol.
I did do a Google Images search and posted the link in another post. I found plenty of images in the first few result pages that were not the turtle or animals with the six pack rings.
But, it's still weak to say: "Hey, you can find hundreds of images of animals eating plastic bags." I can go find hundreds of images of children crying with their parents next to them, it doesn't mean there is an epidemic of parents beating kids.
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What the industry rep didn't get was that the problem isn't in those bags that got properly disposed or recycled, it is the ones that get set loose into the environment.
Paper bags are recyclable at the curbside. You don't have to drive to the grocery store or recycling center to recycle them.
The reason why plastic bags are difficult to recycle is that they tangle up the sorting machines.
It would be good to ban plastic and charge an appropriate fee for paper that could be used for mitigating their environmental impact.
Tualatin
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First of all, I'd just like to say that it's sad that OPB brought an industry-supported lobbyist on air to postulate on the glorious nature of single-use plastic bags. That's like inviting a tobacco industry flak to debate the merits of cigarettes. It would have been better to find someone who wasn't getting paid to spout off.
Secondly, people act like they can't live without these bags. How long have they been in use anyway? Didn't people do fine without them before? I don't remember reading in the history books about the populace rising up in arms because they couldn't figure out how to get their groceries home.
When seatbelts were introduced, it caused a huge stir. It required a change in human behavior. It was a nuisance to put the darn thing on before you started driving. Now it's second nature. You just do it. It would be the same with bringing your own bags. If no bags were available, you might forget a few times, but after schlepping your groceries home without any bags, it would become second nature to bring your own.
Let's not underestimate the power of habit, or the power to change our habits for the better.
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I don't think that what the senate came up with in this bill is what would yield the best results for the environment. I would like to hear why they chose this tactic over other ones. It seems to me that a higher tax (5 cents isn't enough incentive for me) or a ban on all bags with the option of purchasing a sturdy reusable bag would be a much better solution. Plus, you would think that someone supporting the ban in this discussion would bring data on the outcome of plastic bag bans in other cities . . . Instead, the senator went for logical fallacies like attacking the opponents character and the number of images of animals harmed by plastic bags without comparison to other harmful waste.
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So I did look up what the bags are made of. Mr. Joseph is correct. Not petroleum, but byproduct of "clean" natural gas.
So I did google the photos of animals and plastic bags. Mr. Joseph is correct, there aren't that many, particularly for a 30-yr period of use like he said.
So let's see, Sen. Haas' mission is based on misinformation, exaggeration, and anecdotal evidence of environmental harm. His first and primary reaction like so many on this comment thread is: the guy's a lousy, stinking lobbyist.
Misinformation, ad hominem attack, exaggeration. By the Senator.
Senator, are no lousy, stinking lobbyists involved in your banning effort? Why are you pushing this and who's paying for the effort? Why now?
You don't want to hit people in the pocket book with a tax? That's disingenuous.. the state just voted in two tax hikes far greater than this would be.
Let's not forget that many kitchen garbage bins are amazingly well-sized for a plastic grocery bag to be reused as a garbage bag. If the ban occurs, thousands of households will now have to start paying for MORE EXPENSIVE, THICKER plastic bags that as a result are WORSE for the environment.
Enough of this joke; do something constructive for this state.
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I am happy the the issue of single use consumption is being addressed on this program, however this is not the manner in which I would have liked. Sen. Hass should not have even been on the show, he is busy and likely sleep deprived to say the least. I have seen him at DEQ meetings and talking with the Grocers, he is on the ground and studying the issues. Unfortunatly that may not have come across in the discussion today. There are groups in Portland that have worked hard on this issue, I would have liked to see them represented! I hope this is not the end of this issue at the state level.
Banning plastic bags or even taxing their use, is only the beginning. We as consumers need to stop single use consuming and act in ways that bennefit future generations not daily convience.
So OPB and Oregonians, I challenge you not get a plastic bag the next time you go to your favorite burrito cart or buy that six pack on Friday night.
P.S. newspaper is a great way to clean up dog poop!
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I was disappointed in Mark Haas performance on the show. His refusal to acknowledge evidence deemed relevant by a court and provided by Stephen Joseph was a textbook example of how politicians work today. They just ignore the evidence they don't like and then slam the messenger. Haas' lead-in attack on Mr. Joseph, comparing him to a tobacco lobbyist was a diversionary and unwarranted cheap-shot.
The real problem with plastic bags is the inconsiderate people that don't dispose of them properly. If it's not feasible to do this at the stores, it seems a reasonable fix to this is to implement recycling systems at the municipal facilities that can process the bags.
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Just because a guy is insulting and a jerk doesn't mean he's wrong about everything. It would be good to look at the facts.
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I moved from Oregon to Ireland for a couple of years starting in 2003 and I was impressed about the whole plastic bag ban. Coming from an environmentally aware place, I was surprised we hadn't done that already given the bottle bill. I was told, by friends in Ireland, that almost overnight people started carrying their own bags to the market. If you forgot, you could get a small plastic bag for about 15 cents. I don't ever remember seeing paper bags. However, some stores had empty boxes you could take and use (a la Costco) for free.
I don't think banning plastic carrier bags is enough. People will just shift to paper if it is offered. We need to encourage people to bring their own multi-resuable bags to shop. Banning or a fee is sometimes the only way because people can be very self-interested and lazy.
Thank you,
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Oooph...that was ungly. For tone, and for general representation by both sides.
Some points on which we might agree:
- Single use bags in general, are wasteful and detrimental for lots of reasons…to our physical health, to the well being and beauty of our environment, to our current and future access to resources...etc. To debate which is worse, is something of a distraction from the real problems associated with single use bags.
- Reusable bags generally serve the intent of a great majority of plastic and paper single use bags
- Plastic bags (and many other forms of plastic) are highly recyclable, and there are very significant environmental benefits to be realized by incorporating recycled content plastics into new products.
- Plastic film in general (bags, wraps, other packaging) causes serious problems for the sorting equipment used in curbside recycling programs in the NW and elsewhere, and there doesn’t currently exist affordable or readily available technological solutions to this problem.
- If the American Chemistry Council or anyone else is serious about plastics recycling, then the pursuit of domestic manufacturing of recycled plastic products must be part of the plan. Local manufacturing often leads to higher demand and value placed on recycling commodities, which puts money into collection systems and the public awareness campaigns that create healthy recycling programs.
- A state program is good, a national program would be better… http://www.aorr.org/blog_plastics.html
- I personally like the idea of a fee on all single use bags, handled within stores (not sent to the state), that is used to subsidize the cost of a reusable bag. Put $.50 on a single use bag, and charge $.50 for a reusable one. Bring your bag, avoid the fee, retain choice. I made myself buy a reusable $.99 bag every time I forgot one. I started using reusable bags consistently once I accumulated eight or nine of them, and couldn’t stand to buy another.
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I agree with so many of these comments, and that is perhaps part of the problem, and the problem that Mr. Hass faces. So, many of the opposing views seem to make sense---and, who do you believe? Topics like these are often grey areas, and their importance relates largely to your priorities. It is hard to express, and speak with certainty in an area where there probably isn't any. Much of the way we equate, or rate, the issue has to do with personal priorities, not with any objective priorities.
What does seem detrimental about this, is a fervent advocacy for it. Because then it becomes an argument of moral authority and who gets to decide how and when we can be 'inconvenienced.' And, then the next step is always: what am I doing and what are you doing, and who is being the 'better low-impact all-around human champion.' These potential wolf-cries are harmful, because, they can water down future attempts at solving verifiable or large-impact environmental issues, through the erosion of the public trust.
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On your next drive, just watch the gutter and then see if you don't agree plastic bags should be reduced. The main streets in North Portland are lined with plastic bags.
Over in Tillamook, the grocery stores switched to plastic a few years ago. I recall thinking how ironic it was that the forests there were being stripped for wood fiber, yet the grocers within sight of those massive clearcuts were using a plastic bags.
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I never bought garbage bags until this year when many stores stopped using plastic bags. I have always used the grocery store bags to wrap my garbage. I don't think it's much of an environmental saving to substitute one for the other. The makers of garbage bags come out ahead of all of this if the ban goes into effect.
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This bill will hurt poor people like me. Why? Because I use these plastic store bags for my trash can. Have you seen the price of plastic kitchen bags at the store? They are expensive! It is not like I'll stop using plastic because plastic contains wet food trash well.
I'm all for the environment, but this issue is chump change in the big flick.
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Storables (and others) sells a superb under-sink-door-mounted gadget that accepts my used plastic bags and turns them into garbage bags. I reuse nearly all plastic bags in this way. If plastic bags are banned, I will need to abandon my gadget or purchase plastic bags for my gadget. I love my free used plastic bags. Leave them alone.
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All one has to do is volunteer to "Adopt A Road" and pick up liter on our roads and highways to see the negative impact that plastic bags have on our environment. My husband and I have been cleaning the roads near our home for 5 years now and the liter is constant. It is sad to clean up from all the plastic that is discarded or carelessly thrown from vehicles. Anyone who lives in this beautiful state of Oregon should be glad we will hopefully ban the use of more plastic! Yes, there's arguments of methane gas in the breakdown of paper bags, but I say lets not be lazy about all this. We can use cloth or recycable bags. What is so hard about that? We can certainly come up with alternative means to lining garbage bags, picking up dog doo or whatever else distresses us from seeing the plastic bags go away. For some people this seems like a trivial matter, but I think its very important because it impacts the quality of our life. I choose to live in a place that is green, clean and not wasteful. I'm hoping Oregonians will be a role model for other citizens to take action where they live and make a small difference in a big way! Thank you Mark Haas.
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Don't take this the wrong way, I am definitely NOT trying to sound like I am without sin, but as my partner and I have no car, when I go to Wal-Mart by bus, I take my folding cart and a pile of reusable bags that we have acquired at a cost of 1 to 2 dollars each.
I then bag my own at the U-Scan lane so that I can bag them in the most efficient way and get the most groceries into the least amount of space as possible.
Yes, I use an occasional plastic bag when I am buying such things as Mr. Clean, so that it is 'segregated' from the food. (Nobody wants Mr. Clean-flavoured sugar in their coffee.)
Finally, I use the plastic bags from Wal-Mart for lining the garbage can in the bathroom and in the bedroom. I wish we could compost our food waste, but we live in an upstairs duplex and have no yard in which to compost.
We do recycle as much as possible -- if it is plastic, paper, metal, or anything that we even THINK might be recyclable, it goes in our recycling cart, except the glass -- that goes in the small tote bin. So we're trying to help, but we know we are not perfect either.
By the way, there are three companies doing business in Lane County alone that do not offer single-use plastic bags at all: Trader Joe's, Market of Choice, and Dari-Mart. I invite Wal-Mart to become the fourth.
(This comment is not aimed at any particular person or group.)
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I would just like to say that I lived in a town where plastic bags were banned and never once did I think "Gosh, I really need a plastic bag right now, I really wish they hadn't banned those free ones at the store". You make do - change your ways. I was in Ireland and made the mistake once - and only once - to forget a tote and was forced to buy some cheap bags for my groceries. That's how people learn. Oh and I'm poor and never worry about having to "buy" plastic bags - I have so many still at my house for re-use that I fear I they will never go away.
As for using plastic bags for dog poop and kitchen/bathroom garbage liners, yeah I do that. But paper bags work just as well. I compost anything food-related so my garbage isn't "wet" or smelly - and I'd rather not preserve all that trash for hundreds of years. Or hey, here's an idea - don't use liners at all. Most garbage cans are plastic already - and washable.
Our world is becoming a plastic fantastic wonderland. I'd like to slow this process down anyway possible. Soon enough our beaches will be composed of mostly plastic (look close they're already getting close), our fishes bellies will be full of little plastic pieces, and what will we be?
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What does one do when they buy a queen size Hungarian goose duvet? How about the pack of toilet paper you are too embarrassed to carry out in the open to the car, for fear people may realize you, um, use the restroom too? What about all the things that don't fit in paper bags? What about the wrapped presents you are trying to hide? Plastic, is well, plastic, it stretches, it gives a little, it is a practical way to transport many items that aren't easily transportable in paper.
How about those Hefty, Ultra Flex® 39 Gallon Heavy Duty Clean-Up Bags, you purchase at Target? Sorry Sir, no plastic bags, but, let me put your bulk-size plastic garbage bags in paper bags for you, along with your Ziploc® sandwich bags, your Scotch® tape, your deodorant, your shower-gel, your two-liters, and the plastic litany continues... . We are not serious, are we? This is the message we want to send out about environmental responsibility, that it starts with the little stupid things, the easy targets?