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Back in 2005, then-Portland mayor Tom Potter led the charge to withdraw the city from the Joint Terrorism Task Force. He argued, at the time, that the city needed to be given more access to information from the federal and local law enforcement partnership.
This issue has been relatively quiet over the last five years, but it roared back to the fore in the aftermath of a high profile arrest in November. Mohamed Mohamud was charged with attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction for trying to detonate what he thought was a car bomb at a holiday tree-lighting ceremony at Pioneer Courthouse Square.
Suddenly a very public and very divisive debate was back: should Portland rejoin the JTFF? The ACLU of Oregon says no; The Oregonian's Anna Griffin says it should, but it won't; Mayor Sam Adams says he will decide using a "fact-based approach." (To read a quick primer and dip deeper into the debate, check out the city's JTTF Review page.)
Mayor Adams wants to vote on the issue on February 24th. In anticipation of the vote, the City Council held its first public forum on Thursday the 13th at Portland State University.
Should Portland be a part of the JTFF? Why, or why not? Has the Mohamed Mohamud case affected your thinking on this issue?
Tagged as: mayor · police · terrorism
Photo credit: Jcestnik / Creative Commons
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Are you referring to the Somali immigrant caught up in an FBI sting? The question I would ask first is: What the heck was he doing here in the first place? More official idiocy or misplaced compassion? Has everyone forgot that just a few yrs ago these buggers were killing our people? A majority of Muslims here and abroad are firmly convinced that our wars are being fought against their religion! Since Muslims in the modern world are the most fiercely religious of all people, except perhaps Zionists, allowing Muslims to immigrate to the US is sheer folly.
The fellow was little more than a Patsie. Sure he hates us, but aside from gassing to his friends and being silly enough to email or talk over a phone about his fantasy, he actually did nothing at all, but jabber until the FBI agent enabled him and lured into an act whereby they nailed the silly sod with that dud bomb.
Given there are now over 7 miilion Muslims in the states, and most harbor the same resentments and hatred of Christianity as this poor devil, the FBI is assured of a never ending supply of similar Patsies they can drag into a sting any time they need to rev up the fear engine.
This reminds me of the situation of the CPUSA (Communist Party USA) in the late fifties. 75% of its membership were FBI plants. It was said that FBI membership dues and contributions were all that was keeping the CPUSA alive.
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Yes, Penny! Thanks for catching the typo. It has been fixed :)
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According to Gereng:
Given there are now over 7 miilion Muslims in the states, and most harbor the same resentments and hatred of Christianity as this poor devil
Do you not even consider how completely baseless statements like this create credibility issues for you?
It would be nice to have a discussion, but when you are not even limited by the constraints of reality, why bother?
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Portland should be wary of partnering with the JTTF. Was the FBI sting of Mohamud an attempt to scare Oregonians into the arms of cooperating with Federal agencies? What respect and information will Oregon anti-terrorism enforcement receive as a JTTF partner? Or will Oregon be expected to bend over backwards and submit to the authority and dictates of Federal anti-terrorism efforts? There are too many questions that do not have sufficient answers for Portland to consider partnering with the JTTF.
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Everything political coming out of Federal Govt is aimed at eliminating all states rights and establishing a dictaorship with all real control residing in the power elites who own most of the nation's wealth. The front men we are allowed to choose among candidates chosen for us. Money is the only determinate in politics today. Campaign speeches are just so much blah, blah, blah...meaningless after they win election.
As far as which Federal law enforcement agency we partner with? Oregon will partner with whomever or whatever we are told to cooperate with. Does anyone in state Govt have any genuine choices today?
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To soggy portlander.
Between 1955 and 1993 I lived and worked and studied in Egypt, Algeria, Turkey, Iran, Somalia and Indonesia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and much travel in other Muslim states. I began college in Cairo, at AUC.
I understand Islam and these folk much better than you do. Living, and working with them for many many yrs wasn't a waste. If you think that making war on their religion (as most think we are doing) is consistent with an immigration policy that allows them wholesale entry into our country, then you are not thinking clearly. Why do you suppose in WWII we locked up Japanese, German and Italian nationals along with some US citizens of those nationalities? I can understand the liberal mentality, but when it becomes suicidal, it leave me flatfooted with amazement.
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To Gareng,
I have worked exclusively in Muslim countries since 2002 (Egypt and Saudi Arabia). I was there last week (Riyadh). I am not ignorant in the least to Islam and "these folks" as you so openly put it.
So how does that give you license to just make wholesale and unfounded comments?
Why did we lock up people in WW II? Well for starts, ignorance and bigotry.
What wholesale immigation policy? And who are you calling a liberal?
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Ignoring facts does not change them.
Less than two months ago Portland got lucky. A bomb attempt at the Christmas Tree Lighting Ceremony may have killed dozens and wounded hundreds and left thousands numb with PTSD.
Yes, even the liberal bastion of PDX is on international terrorist crosshairs.
Adversity is a great teacher. And when someone is trying to kill you, you better learn quick. We cannot play the Kumbaya Game. And if you turn the other cheek, after two cheeks, you run out before long.
We do NOT have unlimited TIME, MONEY and MANPOWER resources. WE MUST BE SMART. We know even before a terrorist event, risk factors for potential actors:
GENDER: 95% of Terrorists are MALE.
AGE: 90% of Terrorists are young. Aged 15-35yo.
RELIGION: Greater than 90% of World Wide Terrorism in the past 10 years is related to Radical Islam. I invite you to peruse international newspaper headlines for the past decade since 9/11.
RACE: As abhorrent as racism is to modern, progressive society, we must admit RACE is a factor as it is closely linked to religion, tribe, sect, and culture. IF our adversaries use race/religion as a basis for ethnic cleansing, then RACE becomes an issue--ipso facto.
If they are trying to kill civilians because they are Westerners, White and Christians at a Christmas Party, then race and religion IS an issue. Bin Ladin promised he will not target Americans, if we convert to Islam.
PROFILING INCLUDING RACIAL AND RELIGIOUS PROFILING is a valuable Police and Anti-Terrorism tool and it must be used, just like Gender and Age when evaluating potential suspects.
We can call it something else like a 'hunch', sixth sense or common sense. But it works. Calling it something else other than Racial Profiling doesn't change the truth--or effectiveness. And since 9/11 it has been employed effectively for All Our Safety--let it continue.
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"... Bin Ladin promised he will not target Americans, if we convert to Islam." -- jacob — Sun Jan. 16th 10:48a.m.
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I gotta tell ya, I would be VERY SKEPTICAL of any so-called promises made by Osama bin Laden.
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To soggy above.,
Somehow I don't think visiting Egypt and Saudi Arabia have much to do with a significant understanding of Islam and the theocracy Muslim fundamentalists everywhere work incessently to install. Egypt, Algeria, Indonesia, Turkey and Iraq under the Baathist, all struggle to contain and disrupt this ever encroaching drive to impose the Sharia.
In Islam there is no distinction between Govt and religion. The Sharia makes this clear. Whenever the fundamentalists gain control their first order of business is to readjust civil law to comform wkith the Sharia. S.A. is an example of Sharia law being made paramount to civil law.
Speaking of Saidi Arabia, wheren't the majority of those chaps who flew the planes into the WTC, Saudis? It is common knowledge that the Saudis were and remain the chief source of funding for the religious schools that teach a Wahabi version of Islamic fundamentalism. That these schools were and still are turning out radicals such as fill the ranks of the Taliban?
It is plainly silly to suggest locking up enemy nationals during war time is "bigotry and ignorance". Regarding the Japanese citizens' inturnment: The FBI and Navy Intel were aware that Japanese intelligence officers (members of the Black Dragon Society) were visiting all the Japanese communities along the west coast for the express purpose of establishing an espionage network. What the FBI still did not know on Dec 7 1941 was the extent of their success in creating that network of potential saboteurs.
When this info was taken to FDR in the days following the Pearl Harbor attack, FDR decided the risk to the coastal military and defense industries were too great to chance the existence of a large scale Japanese espionage network. So, he had these people rounded up and inturned at Tule Lake. Unfair? Of course! Unreasonable given the information the FBI had? No, quite sensible under the circumstances. Certain German and Italian recent arrivals- were also inturned for the duration.
I respectfully submit in connection to the issue of allowing Muslim immigration you simply do not know what you are talking about. You have no idea what a peoples' culture and a national identification is all about. On the other hand, if you feel that gradually allowing Whites to be reduced to simply one more minority in the nation they built, then, of course, you should support unfettered immigration of all comers.
However, your ridiculous view that inturning enemy aliens during war time is "bigotry and ignorance" taints the other assertion that you "understand Islam". Poppy-cock! You appear to understand very little.
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Gareng:
So let me get this straight, first you start off and telling me that you know so much about Muslims because you have actually spent time there, so a naïve person like me shouldn’t bother calling you on your continued outrageous statements? When I point out that I have worked exclusively in Muslims countries since 2002 and was there as recently as a week ago, then familiarity is no longer relevant? I don't just visit, I spent up to about a third of each year living in Muslim countries.
Remember, I was only pointing out the fact that once again you come on this board and make all encompassing bigoted comments (e.g. Given there are now over 7 million Muslims in the states, and most harbor the same resentments and hatred of Christianity as this poor devil). You can attack me or start being a little more responsible in your comments, your choice.
Although the fact that you spent an extensive part of your life as an embassy guard does help to explain some of this. While I appreciate your service, it doesn't give you license to inflame the way you do.
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yeps, me too, i dont think osama bin laden can actually make any promises.
Damien @ Best of Craigslist
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Ask your self which in the long run is the lesser of the two evils. Portland joining JTFF and having to align to a national standard of law enforcement. Or the Portland we know who seemingly re-write and bend the rule to suit their needs.
Portlands withdrawal from the JTFF was done so at disservice to the greater Portland community. Despite the amomosity towards the JTFF and it orgins as a Federal agency. The standards and professionalism required for interagency collaboration as member of the JTFF are heads above the caliber and quality we settle for from the Portland Police Department today. 6 years ago then and as it now Portland withdrew not because it was in the public interest. Portland withdrew because it did not want to subject itself to the level of standards required to sustain a well trained, professionally organized and managed Public Safety Agency. Portlands withdrawal 6 years ago was an unwillingness to subject its agency to accountablity, training, and upgrade of standards, method and policies other than its own. Professional Law Enforcemnt does not shrink from joint-venture and opportunity improve upon tenet's Protect and Serve.
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To Soggy above.
I spent 30 yrs in aid activities. 24 yrs as a mission director for a major NGO. My Marine Corps embassy experience was only in Egypt in 1955-58.
In foreign assistance I worked on a daily basis with govt and with villagers and with and through a host govt staff that generally comprised about 75% of the total mission. From ministers to tribal elders I dealt every day with questions and issues that were often couched in terms of effects on religion...theirs and ours. Major areas of concentration were: public health, refugee assistance, agriculture, education, emergency feeding, civil engineering projects, and MCH programs. Plus other types of activities too numerous to list. Aside from Muslim countries I worked in central and south America and in black Africa, India and Sri Lanka.
Since when is expressing a view point that is informed by many years of relevant experience inflamatory? The world is NOT the rosy, reasonable, peaceful place you have conjured up. Your opnions so far as I can tell do not relate to the issue of a rising population of Muslims in the US. Excuse me for mentioning it, but you are a typical example of a know-nothing liberal who hasn't a clue about what is occurring in the US in terms of changing demographics and their impact of every aspect on our national life.
Change the population and one changes all aspects of culture. Perhaps you haven't fully appreciated the ramifications of 'press 1 for English' ! Nor what the present migration of millions of third worlders portends for our future?? The FBI at least appears to have a handle on it.
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What is with the baseless hostility? You just attack without even knowing what you are attacking.
Again, I am not any type of liberal, certainly don't look at the world through rose colored lenses and have no any issues with the FBI task force.
So if you would spend a little less time demoinstrating your outrage, you might be able to appear to be a reasonable person whose perspective has some value.
I think you would probably find that we agree much more than we disagree. But if you need someone to beat up, feel free.
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The tree lighting "bomb plot" was created, planned and executed by the FBI. The fact that they had to find a dumb angry kid to validate this effort is secondary. I'm sure that Portland ruffled alot of federal feathers when we pulled out of the JTFF. I'm also sure that this was not forgotten when the "bomb plot" was being planned and executed. The "bomb plot" was designed to scare the public of Portland and i'm sad to see that it worked so effectively.
We don't need secret police in Portland I don't see how it furthers our city.
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The Christmas Day bomber was not a creation of the FBI. You can go on all day trying to reinterpret history all you want, but this kid was trouble and the FBI acted appropriately.
Yes, we obviously need law enforcement to work from all angles; the number one job of government is protection. Our government is composed of us, so if you have issues with any specific tactic, get involved. Otherwise stay out of the way for the safety of the rest of us.
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I sit on three different civic boards, and I am the Chair of my local neighborhood association. I also spent 3 hrs today planting trees in a city park so.... Lets talk about who's involved. I want My city police accountable to MY mayor. Not the FBI! If the FBI wants local people, they can hire local FBI agents for their field office. They don't need our police to help create fake bomb threats that scare the public.
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Having extensively covered the original debate in 2005 on Portland Communique
http://communique.portland.or.us/joint_terrorism_task_force/
I've had a number of thoughts about this sudden revisitation. Rather than rehash them here, I'll just link them.
First, a look at revisionist history when it comes to the JTTF debate:
http://furiousnads.com/posts/the-politics-of-revisionist-history-on-the-jttf
Second, a direct response to Anna Griffin's piece:
http://furiousnads.com/posts/having-it-both-ways-on-the-jttf
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The OPB TV site is still down, would somebody notify the Webster, please.
Clicking on:
http://www.opb.org/television
Returns the message:
Bad Gateway
The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
Sorry for posting off topic.
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Thank you, Tom. We have informed our web team.
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Thank you, Sarah Jane.
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Does this have anything to do with the proposed armed detention center (operated for Homeland Security) on South Waterfront that will be 100 feet away from SWcharter elementary school?
The Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE) will be holding at least 15 people a day. The concern is that it is carelessly being crafted right near an elementary school.
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Oh, for goodness sakes, "Top Secret" is one of the lowest levels of classification, I was given it in the Army as a matter of course, before I was even background checked. Of course they went on to check me to see if it was appropriate. Oh, and it was.
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No it isn't, Tom. Confidential is the lowest classification, Then 'Official Use Only'. Then 'Secret' 'Top Secret' 'Your Eyes Only" then 'Flash"'
This is recalled from my years spent as a Marine security guard in a US embassy abroad. When coded messges came after the embassy closed , and during the night, we had to deal with these according to a protocol based on classification. Interestingly these telegrans from DC came through the local commercial Marconi system. They were encrypted in five letter code groups. The classification was in the heading. Those were the classifications existing back then. 'Flash' was highest classification and meant the US was under military attack.
Recently I read that our classification system was completely out of whack and that some 1 million individuals had top secret clearance at any given time. In short, the Govt had lost control over its own system of secure communications.
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THE FBI was never investigated for its role in bombing the World Trade Center (the first time) in 1993 -- killing 6 civilians. The CIA actually admitted that it too was culpable by providing some of the terrorist/agents.
The JTTF is still "need to know" (do not be fooled). How can we expect our local government to maintain the law and safety for our citizens when the FBI decides what is need to know. It simply adds liability without real top secret clearance.
Certainly if New York had been required to know what was going on, they could have prevented the attack that killed 6 in 1993.
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The Portland police a stretched pretty thin right now. Would the FBI be paying our officers
Also, I just don't like the divided loyalty of officers who are Portland Police, but not accountable to the police department for all that they do.
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an imperfect analogy, and a few observations, also imperfect:
this JTTF stuff is somewhat like aspirin for cancer -
to say nothing of the FACT that this is an ages old conflict, especially from THEIR point of view; we’ve had the luxury of having overlords’ amnesia- get to know some history
also, those nuts over there are just like our nuts over here - stupid, uneducated, clothed in godliness, and self-righteous as military boots
the whole of the possibilities for a 'JTTF' is so much more like a secret police than it is like anything an open society needs to save itself
- but Oh! wait!
we're not here to save ourselves. It's the bankers and industrialists who quake in their (expensive) boots - they're the ones who need the saving - you and me, buddy? we're expendable, and when we are expended we are held up as even more reason to save the bankers, et al
This is their war, not ours, and we would do well to carefully choose just whose side we come to
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I think the concerns of the ACLU need to be incorporated if it is rejoined.
And it ought not be rejoined if not.
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It always comes down to "Who watches the watchers?"
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Amen! That is the problem with secrecy, isn't it?
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John Kroger is not listening.
Tom Potter said the FBI did not follow procedure in the Christmas Tree bombing.
Kroger is "confident" local law enforcement would be able to determine if they should violate a secrecy agreement under the JTTF because local police would "know" which laws were violated????
I will not vote for Kroger next election. He seems happy to turn over his responsibilities.
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Tom Potter's concern about compliance with Oregon law by local members of the JTTF is not without basis. I am an attorney and represented a person who was subjected to surveillance conducted by a local Oregon detective, who was assigned to a DEA narcotics task force. The type of surveillance he used -- attachment of a GPS tracking device to the suspect's vehicle -- was lawful under federal law (at least according to the Ninth Circuit), but unlawful under the Oregon Constitution.
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I am very concerned about our loss of civil liberties already, and I am certain we would lose more with this task force. We know the state law gives us stronger rights than the federal law (as interpreted by the new right wing courts). The FBI is known to use the patriot act provisions to torture citizens and call them "terrorists" so they can hold them indefinitely without charging them or giving them lawyers, to spy on us without a judges order, and who knows what else. On one hand the local force inclusion might keep fewer honest citizens from being erroneously targeted, but the label of "terrorism" is continually being broadened. Remember that Peace activists are considered "dangerous" by the FBI. I vote no.
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Yes! There is a huge danger that Peace might break out!
Oh, the lack of horror!
We Americans might actually divert money to our schools, and health care, and changing our energy policies, on and on!
Oh, the lack of horror!
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First, I would like to comment that our country was originally a "Constitutional Republic" not a "Constitutional Democracy"! Since each of our states are no longer Sovereign it has been a distinct disadvantage to maintaining local control of our government. In the matter of the JTFF the local police force (including the Sheriff of that county) should always be in tandem with the information and plans of that force and any other federal agency acting in our jurisdiction. Attorneys who are "clerks of the Federal Court" not the "Constitutional Court" need not be informed untill such time as the action is challenged after the fact.
Section 10 of "The Bill of Rights" states: Rights reserved to the States and the People. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Through Unconstituional Amendments and Exective Orders we are now a country in extreme stress. We The People have been divided and are ripe for the fall.
For God and Country
granny
Granny
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TOL, is this the end?
Are there no upcoming shows?
Or are they being cloaked in secrecy for security reasons? ;)
Just Joshing you and wondering what is coming up.
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In 2002, guns drawn, Max Line to airport shut down the JTTF arrested the Imam of the main mosque in Portland. After the sensors detected traces of TNT. Four days later his arrest was presented at the JTTF renewal meeting. After all the fanfare the imam was quitely released. He was prosecuted with unrelated case so he can stay quite. We all know the finger print case of attorney Brandon. Now a misguided boy that his own father reported to the FBI a year and a half ago. Is paraded as a mean to reconstitute the JTTF again. Those who are making the case that terrorism and Islam are related? We needed to create a mean to justify defense expenses after the cold war was over. So what is better than to create a religion war. Both sides of the radicals love it. Where were all these muslim terrorist before the cold war was over. Please do your own research so you can see throught the smoke screen. Stop and think!
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Comments are now closed.
Shouldn't the Header for this topic read, "Rejoining the JTTF," rather than JTFF?