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@lolo - I'm 100% NOT exaggerating nor lying.  I pay very close attention to local politics and bills.  The bike plan passed THIS YEAR by Mayor Adams is summed up by the following:

"The 20 year plan, which aims to increase ridership in Portland to 25% of all trips by bicycle in the year 2030, has an estimated price tag of around $600 million, for about 600 miles of bicycle boulevards, separated paths, and trails."

This is all public record if you'd like to look it up - it made a number of local papers.  $600 million dollars does qualify as $100's of millions of dollars I believe - and I'm just as blown away at the number as you. 

I would encourage you to pay attention to the various things the current city government is doing - and you'll find this isn't the only gross mis-spending of your tax dollars the local city government is involved in.  Trust me, investigate even a little into how much they allocate for their pet projects and how little they invest in real efforts that citizens need (like jobs, education, and crumbling infrastructure) and how poorly the programs they did fund perform (e.g. commissioning and ignoring $100,000+ reports/etc) and you'll be hopping mad like the rest of us that pay attention to our local government's graft and waste.

posted 2 years, 5 months ago
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@sunvalleysally - I'd posit that the reason folks are so desperate is because our state does a pretty darn good job of chasing money-making companies out of our state.

I've watched a number of my own entrepreneurial friends leave this state because of the high costs of operating here.  It's much cheaper going up north by one state. Columbia also thought so when they moved out of Multinomah county.

I myself have considered it more and more recently after watching our own Portland city government passing $100's of millions of dollars of infrastructure money (sewer taxes) to bike lanes.  Bikes are great, but they don't create any high-paying jobs; nor do they kept the infrastructure I need for a business going.

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@jackdresser - very true that religious beliefs are more vulnerable to coercion; but that's not to say other ideologies are not almost as succeptable as well.  Political ideologies are probably almost as maluable as it's hard to emperically prove what is an absolute best/good for a society. 

You're right in saying that its the psychopatic/psychopathological leaders of any movement that are the problem.  Particularly charismatic leaders have throughout history been able to convince others to follow them despite what seem like glaring flaws in hindsight. 

So you either target your efforts on them, or you conversely target those that are most vulnerable to their coercive arguments.  Usually these are the poor, uneducated, abused, forgotten and discarded desperate elements of a society.  Attack those problems and you'll likely take away the fuel for the psychopath's fire.  I'd bet people that have food and basic needs met aren't as likely to feel that their only option in life is to blow themselves up to make a point.

posted 2 years, 5 months ago
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@leisesturm

I feel like we've entered a wierd twilight zone in this country. If anyone is arrested for these kinds of activities, one side is sure to claim all kinds of setup/consipiracy. If someone does blow something up, the public cries 'oh how could we have let this happen?'

So exactly what should have been done liesesturm? 
If you were the FBI at the beginning and had recieved a note from his father saying that his son Mohamed was harboring dangerous attitudes and saw a communique that he was contacting known extremist groups - how would you have handled it? 

Keep in mind what your public said about the underwear-bomber who's father also warned the FBI about, and whom they choose to ignore.

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And apparently, then, he was even stupider to fall for this 'obvious' stunt.

As a college engineering grad, I have a hard time believing he was that completely dumb...

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paxton - I seriously disagree.  As with other posts, someone pointed out that it is a great discouraging tactic.  If I were going to engage in this kind of activity, I would now know that it's highly likely I could be working with police instead of my intended confederates.  It would make me double-think everything I did and make me move much much more slowly. 

I would argue that the requirement I go slower is worth its weight in gold because the longer I think about such a henious act, the less likely I will be to carry it out.  Others on this comment site suggested that he wasn't fully aware of his decisions - and making him take 2x the time to carry them out might have dissuaded him enough to give up.

And again, the FBI only provided what he asked for - and at no time did he have access to a functioning device.  Even during the 'trial run' they did.  In no way were they showing anyone how to make a device.  I think they did a great job on that front.

posted 2 years, 5 months ago
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@leisesturm - What?  How on earth do you proport that you can somehow prove that he was not going to be able to get a bomb?  What evidence do you have he was led by the nose all the way to the end?  The evidence says the contrary at the moment (we'll get the full story in the trial) - but at the moment you must have secret information none of the rest of us have.  He was told by the investigators the consequences of his actions and given every chance to back out - but did not.  He pressed the detonation button himself with no gun pointed at his head.  Unless new information comes out - I don't know how you make this claim other than your own 'gut feeling'.

Further, if this is such a 'shameful waste of government resources' and truely think your government cooks up this kind of tremendously elaborate lie to get funding - I sure hope you don't support Obamacare or any other program they are even more surely 'lying to you' about... 

I for one still very much distrust the FBI's activities, but am not as much of a consipiracy theorist as you.  And your notion that somhow the Pacific Nothwest is 'revolting' doesn't seem to be bearing a lot of truth.  I for one would like to hear more - which is surely coming.  I haven't heard of any mass protests and would be surprised if more than just your 'standard' 1-2 protests with 100 or so folks outside city hall happens.

posted 2 years, 5 months ago
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Agree - I'm very interested in hearing what his ideological drive was.  Was he just angry?  At whom/for what?  Was he mentally unstable?  etc...

posted 2 years, 5 months ago
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Send a letter to Obama.  And while you're at it - encourage him to finally shut down the detention centers that he keeps defending..

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You forget, the bombings of those places have been going on FAR longer than when we were involved.  The even go on today against their own countrymen's civilian targets - not purely military ones.  Mosque bombings, market bombings, etc. 

It's not as clearly cause and effect as you claim.

And 'having to conduct ourselves in a manner that will not provoke retribution' sounds very much like bending to the will of the school bully.  Eventually someone needs to stand up to them or they'll be running the whole show...

posted 2 years, 5 months ago
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You're right in saying it's semantics, I also don't know what qualifies as a WMD. 

All I DO know is the van had 5-6 55 gallon drums that were supposed to be filled with explosives.  A similar bomb nearly leveled the world trade center - and in Oklahoma city nearly took out the fedral building and killing dozens. 

If a bomb like that went off in crowded pioneer place, I would imagine massive casualties (in hundreds) and probably the collapse or destruction of at least a building or two. 

That's starting to sound like "Mass Destruction" to me...

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Yeah, I can imagine how that email sounded:

"Hello, I'm from Somalia and wish to contact you about an important development..."

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I agree that it was frightening to hear about afterwards and has a smack of showboating. But they went to great lengths to ensure 100% that nobody was ever in any danger. I think it was because they needed to prove he had the intent to follow through with his plot; which he chillingly did by going a few blocks away and triggering what he throught was a fully functioning bomb. 

This was probably needed to prove how devoted he was to his plan.  It appears he removed any doubt that he was going to back out...

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I disagree with your argument - not least of which is because it's a contradition.  You say religions are the problem, but say muslims are not.  Do you realise what makes a person a Muslim is their identification with a religion?  Why did you assume it was his religion when his own congregation condemns his actions and he didn't appear to get support for his plan or ideas from them?  Do you support the people that tried to burn down his Mosque because religions are to blame even though there is no proof to their involvement?

Secondly, you indicate that religions are the the cause of these problem.  It's far too simplistic and wrong to say religion is the the source of this kind of brutal hatred in the world. How about the purely political and ideological killings of rebel groups in Central and South America?  Or the purely monetary murders of drug cartels in Mexico? The atrocities of the Kamier Rouge and Pol Pot, or the wholesale rape and hacking off of limbs by African malitia groups?  Somolian death squads?  None of these groups are based on religious princples/backgrounds.

I agree with croyfp - it's extremeism of ANY ideology: be it political, ideological, religious, monetary, or otherwise that causes folks to feel the need to destroy those that don't believe in what they do.  In fact, I can see a bit of this kind of hatred and anger in your response that desires to destroy something you don't feel is right in your eyes. A true desirer of the good seeks to take what is good, and correct what is bad via reasoned argument and dialog.  An extremist says it must all be destroyed.  So where do you find yourself in your statement?

People desire to hurt others when they themselves have been hurt and not found understanding or healing; so they try to hurt others so that others have to feel the hurt and helplessness they themselves feel.  We won't make a dent in extremists like this until they are allowed to be heard or at least given models to help guide them through their anger.

posted 2 years, 5 months ago
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I hear your argument, but unfortunately, a 19 year old is considered a fully functional and independent adult in our society.  The can drive, vote, serve in military, and all other functions in our society.  And I don't your evaluation of a 19 year old's brain development as 'inability to do complex decision making' would be supported by a psychologists board or if you said that to a group of students at any college campus. 

It's true that our brains develop and mature well into our 50's, but it doesn't mean we are exonerated from the responsibility of our actions even if we don't fully understand them. 

He stated clearly that he desired very much to kill as many people as possible even after the investigators told him his actions would likely kill women and children and would severly impact him the rest of his life.  He desired to continue and he pressed the button himself with no coercion.  That sounds like very adult decision making to me.

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@rethomas - I think you're unrealistic here.  Somalia hasn't had much of a functioning government for years.  Genocide, wars, assassinations - the works.  In such a state, they can't even take care of their own internal basic functions - let alone track down radicals like this.

The local Muslim community has already come out and condemned his actions - and it appears at first brush that he was a lone actor working on motives of his own making. 

The only way you can blame an organization for responsibility is if the org/culture/religion has a systemic culture of promoting or ignoring such behavior.  Beyond that, it's very unrelalistic to say that just because I belong to the local knitting club means that my club has a responsibility to prevent me from hurting animals or any other offensive activity.

posted 2 years, 5 months ago
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Wow.  So, we should get rid of police as well?  Court systems?  Are you supporting an ideological system of anarchy?  What's your alternative for dealing with folks like this?  They clearly exist don't they?

I hate the TSA and like organizations and believe strongly our last two presidents are degrading our civil liberties at dangerous rates; but throwing out all civil justice systems is a stupidly simplistic viewpoint. 

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I hope we all take a moment to reflect on what today's conversation would be if the bomb had gone off and we were dealing with a huge explosion with thousands dead and possible a whole city block destroyed right in downtown.

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I was in a building near the event and watching from the top floor.  The report states there were 5-6 55 GALLON DRUMS with detonation cord and explosives.  I'm no expert, but a similar bomb that went off in the world trade center parking garage nearly took the entire building down, and would likely have wiped out almost a whole city block along with the countless hurt and killed.  It's chilling to know I might not have survived that night and the building I was in might have collapsed around me.

From what I read initially, it sounds as if Mohamed had plenty of time to back out, continued to pursue a goal of - in his own words - "Killing and hurting as many as possible".  He walked up to the train station and activated the device while yelling "Allah Akbar".  It sounds to me like he was very much desiring to do exactlly what he did.

While I'll wait to hear more at the case, I'd personally like to know if I could file a civil attempted murder case against him.  I think everyone at that event could probably do the same.  Here was someone who very clearly tried to kill me and only because of his ineptitude was not successful. 

posted 2 years, 5 months ago
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