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climatetodd's comments:

on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

As an economist, I look for economic explanations.

Take a look at this:

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2008/06/carbon-taxes-vs.html

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

Not a problem at all. Thanks for giving me the opportunity!

Todd Wynn
Climate Change and Energy Policy Analyst
Cascade Policy Institute


I am not mistaking renewable energy credits with carbon offsets. Take a look for yourself at the offsetting projects that are in place with the Climate Trust. climatetrust.org....it is under the section appropriately named....offset projects.

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

Tom,

I do enjoy and get a chuckle out of your retorts. Yes, it seems that my personal carbon dioxide( which is not a pollutant in any sense) can really negatively affect others.

In fact, I have personally decided to stop breathing. I have truly taken your comments to heart and I don't want my exhaling of Co2 to hurt others in society in any way.

Maybe we should all stop breathing or maybe we should limit the number of kids we are allowed to have since the "true" source of CO2 is humans...wait, I think China is already doing this!

Can I get paid offset money for not having kids?

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

I stand for personal freedom and economic opportunity. Two ideals that I think all humans on earth should defend.

I am glad that there are people like Tom in this world that have the freedom to retort, question, and act on what they believe is right.

Although I may disgree with you on most issues, I am proud to know that you have the freedom to be able to decide your own opinions and voice them.

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

Thats great that it is voluntary. The day the government decides to tell me that I can't drive to work because I am out of carbon credits is the day Im worried about!

Thanks for bringing my attention to the voluntary actions that are being done. I applaud energy efficiency, sustainability, and conservation as long as it doesn't take my personal freedoms away.

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

More examples are needed?

Financing wind farms offset project- Wind power is a historically inconsistent and intermittent power source. In order to integrate the wind energy into the grid, utility companies must provide a power load to meet the base requirements of the population. This usually means operating a natural gas or coal fired power plant below optimal efficiency to back up the variable power source. Because of difficulties and cost associated with shutting off thermal power plants, these plants will typically operate in spinning standby mode(http://www.aweo.org/LowBenefit.pdf) which produces more CO2 per kwh than if the use of the thermal plant was optimized, thus offsetting the benefits of wind. Furthermore the use of more wind energy increases the need of fossil fuel generating plants to operate on standby mode.

A typical wind farm requires as much as 10 to 80 acres per MW of electricity generated. A 500 MW gas fire plant may occupy 55 acres but a 500 MW wind power facility could occupy anywhere between 5,000 to 40,000 acres. This is particularly important because Oregon could build the cost effective gas fire plant and use the remaining ?wind farm? land to plants trees as a potential offset. According to Oregon Climate Trust?s Deschutes Riparian Reforestation program(http://www.climatetrust.org/offset_deschutes.php), each acre of forested area could sequester 155 metric tons of Co2. Producing a 500 MW gas fire plant instead of the same capacity wind farm would in a sense ?free up? anywhere between 4,945 to 39,945 acres for potential carbon offsetting. With these figures, this land area could potentially offset 766,475 to 6,191,475 metric tons of Co2 or the equivalent to taking 152,684 to 1,233,361 cars off the road for a year.

The material requirements for wind turbines are 40-50 times greater than for gas fired plants per unit of output(http://www.ncpa.org/studies/renew/notes1.html).
The additional 276 turbines approved for construction at the Stateline Wind project in Oregon will create 51,612 metric tons of Co2 which is the equivalent of adding 10,281 cars to the road for a year. In addition to co2 emissions, construction can also cause erosion, destruction of wild habitats, disruption of water flow, and numerous bird deaths.

I have more examples....Should I go on?

The truth of the matter is that offset programs can easily be manipulated. They have no accountability and they remind me very much of the selling of indulgences to the catholic church.

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

How about the American Physical Society? It is an organization comprised of almost 50,000 physicists, is proclaiming that many of its members disbelieve in human-induced global warming.

There is a considerable presence within the scientific community of people who do not agree with the IPCC conclusion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are the primary reason for the global warming that has occurred since the Industrial Revolution.

I simply argue that as rational intellectual people in this world, we should be questioning all sides of the issue. Until the issue and science is completely settled, we should not be basing policy decisions that drastically affect development.

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

Socialism: An economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government rather than by private enterprise, and in which cooperation rather than competition guides economic activity. There are many varieties of socialism. Some socialists tolerate capitalism, as long as the government maintains the dominant influence over the economy; others insist on an abolition of private enterprise. All communists are socialists.

Im sorry that I don't support the socialist view for America. I also don't think or hope other Americans support this view.

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

WCI cap and trade is one step before issuing carbon credits(dollars) to every citizen. One day I see all of our freedoms being taken away by having carbon credits in our wallets. We will have to trade or sell to our neighbor if he needs to take a flight to see his sick mother in Arizona.

No, this is not made up but Britian is already running a test program on this personal carbon trading system.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB121538804508931123-lMyQjAxMDI4MTA1NzMwODc4Wj.html

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

Good point Tom! That is exactly what is happening with the WCI. You are taking free market consumer decision making that drives towards cost effectiveness and energy efficiency and putting it in the hands of government that is influenced by heavy lobbyists.

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

http://www.theoildrum.com/uploads/12/fuel_efficiency_1945_2005.png
This link shows exactly the opposite and it is one of many.

Fuel efficiency in vehicles have increased dramatically in the last 50 years. It is amazing that anyone would believe otherwise.

As gasoline prices have rose ove the last 50 years, consumers have shown desire to purchase more fuel efficient vehicles. Particularly in the last few years with explosive gas prices, SUV sales have dropped off and hybrids and smaller cars have increased. The free market is working. Stop distorting it!

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

Turn over all our decisions to the government.

hmmmm....that doesnt seem like democracy to me.

wait....what government system is that?

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

LittleCarbonFeet,

It is very interesting that you have said that transparency is needed in a cap and trade program. This is definitely true. As we have seen with the European trading scheme and with Kyoto, scams are everywhere and easy to take advantage of.

However I am dissapointed that you think that because these offset programs are within the WCI's borders that there will not be corruption. There are numerous offset programs that are being implemented right here in Oregon that are quite questionable. My main example would be the carpool website set up by The Climate Trust. Initially intended to offset 30,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide, the money was wasted and only 3,075 tons were offset by the program.

When you speak of offsets, you should describe them as they are; a way to take money from the ratepayer to spend on useless porkbarrel projects that may make people sleep a bit better at night despite their utter waste of resources.

posted 4 years, 10 months ago
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on Capping Carbon in the Northwest

1. What effect will this program have on the global issue?

First issue about this, are anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions a global issue?

For Al Gore, the debate is over, yet for many actual scientists the science is far from over. The exact magnitude of anthropogenic carbon dioxide on global warming is still not concrete. Even Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC, has recently said that the IPCC?s evaluation of climate sensitivity (the rate of temperature change a given amount of greenhouse gas will cause) must now be revisited.

Let?s say we put the issue aside of anthropogenic CO2 not causing global warming because alarmists and non-alarmists could debate back and forth all day on this subject.

The issue of effectiveness of cap and trade programs should be in question when implementing a program that would slow development for the entire world:

Patrick J. Michaels, a prominent scientist states, ?If every nation on Earth lived up to the United Nation?s Kyoto Protocol on global warming, it would prevent no more than 0.126 degrees F of warming every 50 years.?

Bjorn Lomborg, author of the Skeptical Environmentalist, states in regards to Kyoto,?..we could have postponed global warming in 2100 by five years?the temperature we would have seen in 2100, we would see in 2105.?

Under the European Trading Scheme, emissions covered by the program rose by 0.8% across the EU as a whole.

Since the effect of a worldwide trading scheme is expected to have little or no effect and the European example actually shows that emissions increased. A regional plan would have so small of an effect on global warming that it would be immeasurable.

2. What will it mean for the Western States Initiative if the next president implements a national cap-and-trade system?

I certainly hope that the next president will take a look at the utter failure of the European system and will not consider extending any program to the rest of the United States.

Before programs are implemented, I would assume and hope that politicians would look at previous examples of cap and trade and see that it is an utter failure.

3. How will restrictions on utilities and other industries affect energy consumers in the Pacific Northwest?

There is a fairly obvious answer for this question. Cap and trade has a great marketable name because it doesn't involve the word "tax", however cap and trade is a tax. It increases the cost of operating business and these costs are obviously passed down to the consumer. Implementation of the program will not only raise electricity bills but it will raise the cost of almost everything in the market. The cost of manufactured goods, transported goods, etc. will rise with use of a cap and trade system.

posted 4 years, 11 months ago
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